291 comments posted
Background Pony #EB77
@Ohvist
I agree 100%.
@Macaroni C-Pony
In what way would “Shadowy Alicorn” being an alternate Twilight have any bearing or substantial influence on G5? We already had Midnight Sparkle and Sci-Twi. And by this point, the Human World is likely EXTREMELY different during G5’s time, if it even still exists.
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Ohvist

@Macaroni C-Pony
Unfortunately, the answers does not even matter as it will change nothing about how the audience even feels about G5 as a continuation to G4: which serves to invalidate 9 Seasons and 10 Years of our lives spent following Twilights’ adventures only for them to be completely meaningless with the next generation. On top of the fact that the story just repeats beats that were already done before only in a weaker way than how G4 originally did it. The characters are all shallow copies of the Mane Six to various degrees, the “Shadowy Alicorn” has no impact due to how G4 never tried to bother explaining a damn thing about Alicorns and how exactly they differ from the other Three Tribes, and as stated before: recycling their plot far too many times and having all of the narrative focus being about these damn crystals which limits the world and what sorts of stories you can actually tell that doesn’t involve “Rescuing/Protecting Crystal “X/Y/Z”.
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Macaroni C-Pony
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@Daneasaur
On one hand I agree with your sentiment, but I’ve come to a point where I realize I have often have to wait before drawing out conclusions. In time we will see exactly who this unicorn is, what became of the students and Flurry, and how deep htis goes. There’s ZERO probability they’d just forget the Crystal Empire, and for all we know this Unicorn might be pre established character.
It’d be cool if it turns out to be an alternate Twilight
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Daneasaur
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@Incursor
“Point. But that having Heath Warming without casting fire of friendship or similar shows friendship is sufficient to keep them away without spells.”
Watch the first hearths warming again. “Just” friendship isn’t enough to defeat the Windigoes, it’s specifically the flame of friendship. The three friendly advisors were being frozen just the same as the violently fighting leaders with no regard and they ONLY thawed because the flame melted the ice and forced the Windigoes to back off.
But this is outstandingly stupid:
-This all happened during the epilogue timeframe as Rarity is even wearing the same freaking cloak.
-The student 6 don’t matter because they aren’t even mentioned.
-Flurry Heart and the crystal empire don’t matter.
-All the accomplishments, overcoming of problems and destruction that was worked for was for nothing.
-Twilight, the mane 6, and everything we loved in G4 is ruined by ONE unicorn saying “lmao I’m better than you”.
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Crackpot Quackpot
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Jackpot
@Macaroni C-Pony
They haven’t met Starlight nor knew what she did.
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GadenKerensky

Oh lawd… Twilight, you daft bimbo.
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Macaroni C-Pony
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@Background Pony #EB77
First of all, don’t tell me what to do as if you have the slightest means to force me, especially while hiding behind a background account.
Second of all, there is enough context to know he meant “worlds” as in universes. In MLP Legends of Magic, Stygian stated he will “overrun every reality until it they are empty and corrupted as mine”
“empty” sounds like he killed everyone and everything there. And “corrupted” meant he drained all the light and filled it with darkness as he was doing in the show
He also said Celestia and Luna both had “the power of infinite destruction” and called them “the two most destructive forces in history”
Starswirl also states there are an “infinite number of worlds all around us” and that “many of these worlds contain evils worse you can dream… evil that have devoured the light of of their own worlds”
I’m pretty sure whole universe are being destroyed here
And this also applies to Midnight Sparkle, whom Sunset stated was “destroying this world” as the former was shattering reality in EG3. And Midnight is DEFINELTY weaker than Princess Twilight, who is an ALICORN, with far more knowledge and practice with magic with magic altogether.
These are all direct quotes, and they are clearly talking about universes, especially when these comics show and involve them traveling to DIFFERENT universes. So don’t give me that baloney.
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Background Pony #EB77
@Macaroni C-Pony
“Worlds”. Not confirmed to be universes. Not even directly confirmed to be actually destroyed, as in vaporized without any remnants. I’m also pretty sure PoS worded it in one instance as “to break worlds”. Again, stop powerscaling little ponies.
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Macaroni C-Pony
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@Macaroni C-Pony
First, I do prefer the notion of Twilight raising the sun and moon on her own as proof of her worth and progress. But I’m iffy on how she got that power without absorbing it from Celestia and Luna like in the S4 finale. (Yes she went from almost as Strong Swirl vs. the Pony of Shadows to hurting Tirek whom Star Swirl couldn’t scratch, but she never went though anything during S8, she was meant to take over as the start of S9, that would explain the increase.) Her doing so without their extra power could be evidence it doesn’t need stellar levels of power somehow.
Perhaps it has to do with her alicornhood. Being the Element of Magic may also be a factor, as the writers have stated the EoH’s power affected them differently.
Second, “Celestia just holds backs it’s raw power in favor of attack potency.” Are you saying she’s holing back for psychological reasons like avoiding collateral? (If so I think we’re on the same page about what’s holding them back from your calculated powers)? Or her holding back makes her attacks stronger/more potent? (How does that work? Does she put extra energy into containing the aftereffects that such power would otherwise have?) Depending on what you mean I might have some thought about you intreating idea about your theory on the setting holding magics full destructive power back.
This is something worth analyzing. Personally, I believe high tier characters do indeed have this power, but I agree Collateral destruction has rarely been used as evidence.
To Theorize, let’s compare it to Dragon Ball. Goku has shown fighting relentlessly against beings like Beerus and Frieza often violently, yet these battles are rarely shown affecting negatively the planet unless it was specifically target, despite most of them being beyond capable destroying the solar system. This is later attributed to their Ki control in their lore
For whatever reason, There should already be some specific measures in place that prevents high levels of magic from unintentionally causing mass destruction. because there’s no possibility the the writers would have Luna and Celestia accidently kill or endanger everypony around them. And yet still, we have an entire comic book Arc, (the Nightmare Knights Arc) where younger versions of Celestia and Luna are corrupted and literally going around destroying universes.
What these magical fail-safe measures are, how it works, and what it’s limits are however, is open to analysis.
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Incursor

@Daneasaur
Point. But that having Heath Warming without casting fire of friendship or similar shows friendship is sufficient to keep them away without spells.
@Ohvist
My “same magic requirements to move” was referring to the sun and moon having the same magic requirement, six unicorn mages. This means the sun and moon either have the same mass making the sun far smaller than word of god says, or they work in a way that moving them doesn’t use the energy required hence why they never display such power outside moving them.
@Macaroni C-Pony
First, I do prefer the notion of Twilight raising the sun and moon on her own as proof of her worth and progress. But I’m iffy on how she got that power without absorbing it from Celestia and Luna like in the S4 finale. (Yes she went from almost as Strong Swirl vs. the Pony of Shadows to hurting Tirek whom Star Swirl couldn’t scratch, but she never went though anything during S8, she was meant to take over as the start of S9, that would explain the increase.) Her doing so without their extra power could be evidence it doesn’t need stellar levels of power somehow.
Second, “Celestia just holds backs it’s raw power in favor of attack potency.” Are you saying she’s holing back for psychological reasons like avoiding collateral? (If so I think we’re on the same page about what’s holding them back from your calculated powers)? Or her holding back makes her attacks stronger/more potent? (How does that work? Does she put extra energy into containing the aftereffects that such power would otherwise have?) Depending on what you mean I might have some thought about you intreating idea about your theory on the setting holding magics full destructive power back.
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Macaroni C-Pony
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@Background Pony #EB77
The key word being “spell”
In Equestria Girls, their world is constantly being threatened by Raw magic and beings with no experience in magic to cast certain spells. Spells themselves drastically change the situation, and can affect the universe as a whole (The Cutie Remark, Magical Mystery Cure, Reflections) despite their world being sustained by magic altogether.
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Daneasaur
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@Incursor
“And there never was a specific spell to hold back Windigos”
Hearths warming created the burning fire of friendship, who’s magical flame kept the windigoes at bay. By even removing the single day of hearthswarming, equestria is destroyed by the windigoes.
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Background Pony #EB77
@Macaroni C-Pony
Also by that logic of magic being more dangerous outside its universe, compare Midnight Sparkle’s temper tantrum in Friendship Games to Starlight and Sunburst creating a black hole with a few botched spell combinations in season seven.
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Background Pony #EB77
@Macaroni C-Pony
Then what was even the point of introducing the amulet as a plot device if it’s just going to be neglected by a comic post?
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Macaroni C-Pony
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@Ohvist
Actually, Twilight can do it by herself now without the Amulet. Oh, hey look it’s @Incursor
@Incursor
Personally, I go with the theory either the innate magic of the land itself either has measure in place to prevent unintended levels of destruction or Celestia just holds backs it’s raw power in favor of attack potency.
Once thing is for sure: We know magic is much stronger/dangerous OUTSIDE of Equestria than in it’s home dimension.
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Ohvist

@Incursor
as it has the same magic requirements to move
No. It literally doesn’t. If you read Journal of Two Sisters or watched Season 8 it said that before Celestia took control, anytime that the Unicorns tried to move the Sun; it always resulted in those involved losing their Magic with one of the only ones to survive this being Starswirl the Bearded, but it came at a heavy toll on him regardless as moving the Sun around several times had prematurely aged him. This is part of the reason why Celestia felt the need to have given Twilight that Amulet MacGuffin to control the Sun with in her absence.
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Incursor

@Background Pony #B3E0
@Macaroni C-Pony
That is a theory I’m going with, that whatever they move the sun/moon with does not does not translate into being able to put the equivalent energy into anything else. And/or the sun being very different and smaller (it’s near equidistant from the moon given the lack of 8 minute light delay, which would have incinerated the world if Amy Keating Rogers statement about it being a real life sun were valid, nor is more massive than the moon as it has the same magic requirements to move).

The way day and night are working argue the sound and moon do not work in a way that make real world comparisons realistic to assume are valid here.
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Background Pony #5A32
@Background Pony #467B
No
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Background Pony #467B
Is it time to get mad over colorful horses again?
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DR CHRISMAN
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@Ohvist
pretty much
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Background Pony #B3E0
@Incursor
Here’s an idea. Consider the possibility that the magic required to move the Sun and Moon are only applicable to the Sun and Moon. If Celestia had the magical strength to move both bodies, it would be easier to simply move the planet. If Celestia had the “literal power of the sun” as Capper (whose words can be taken as hyperbole) said, then going by VS Wiki logic, a “full-power” magic blast would apparently be at least universe-level.
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Incursor

@Daneasaur
Discords magic was shown to be included as it was on the fritz like the others. Sunny mentioned Thorax so if changelings were effected is liable to be addressed. The S8 finale established magic artifacts would run out of power when magic was drained. And there never was a specific spell to hold back Windigos, just friendship magic which the crystals didn’t change just adding a failsafe of erasing magic and thus Windigos (assuming they survived the S9 finale) if friendship failed.
Yes though that they’re not yet addressing what about the other races and why the Mane Six had to resort to such doesn’t inspire confidence in their ability to give an acceptable answer.
@Ohvist
I’d argue the opposite saying gods and fantasy pantheons would be detrimental to the series.
FIM is about the personal-scale relations and conflicts. That it lets the mere mortal achieve feats that rival or best even the highest god-tier, and allows comparatively mundane stories /characters to be compelling, is the shows big source of awesome.
A pantheon of gods would at best distract from that or worse devalue that by making it insignificant in comparison. The show has enough trouble incorporating high-tier beings (Twi oft forgetting powers, Celestia being oft absent/worfed/useless, villain needing to grab idiot balls/deus ex machinas to be stopped), more of them would mean more of those issues and less of what made the series successful despite action making up a fraction of it and almost all said action episodes attracting controversy.
If it needs a ceiling then just establishing clear rules and limits to their powers would suffice.
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Ohvist

@Daneasaur
Star Wars Fans who had to suffer through “Disney’s Fanfic Trilogy”:
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Daneasaur
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
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Discord is free to keep using magic meaning it was only Pony magic Twilight sealed away.
Changelings would still have all their magic.
And what of magical artifacts that aren’t pony related?
What about the prevention spell to keep Windigoes away that was made by ponies?
What a freaking mess this writing is and what a giant slap to the G4 fans.
This turns twilight and the 6 into total idiots.
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Ohvist

@GrimChariot
I feel that one of the things holding MLP back was a very apparent lack of distinct world building that showcased forces that exist outside of the normal characters that are likened to deities but are not directly connected to Ponies alone. A unifying aspect that would have served as their world’s ceiling that would be impossible for mere mortals to try and measure against, even OP characters like Discord would have reasons enough to avoid trying to directly piss one of them off should he encounter them: think of it like how Darkseid doesn’t try to directly wage war with Allfather and New Genesis to instead embrace the armistice their two worlds operate on.
You could even try to make an argument that Celestia and Luna aren’t as much beholden to controlling the Sun and Moon, but are rather its current custodians elevated to this position by the actual Sun and Moon Gods. Or they were sent by them to try and place a limit on how much damage Ponies were inadvertently causing when Unicorns took control of the Sun: explaining that The Sun God doesn’t condone Magic in their domain to explain why exactly many Unicorns lose their Magic when touching the Sun as opposed to when they move the Moon like they do; which shows that Magic is closer to that of the Night Gods’ domain.
There could even be this arbitrary reason why Ponykind wouldn’t have much knowledge of these Gods from Celestia and Luna due to either a suspension of disbelief on the part of the Ponies refusing to believe that their world’s true Gods are non-ponies, or that Celestia and Luna decided to go rogue from their mission to try painting themselves as Gods to Ponykind to shape them how they see fit (a situation similar to what Salem and Ozma did in Forgotten Fable).
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