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Description
There’s a difference between a Mary Sue and an escapist character. A Mary Sue is usually a void of insufferable perfection with no amount of practicality or nuance. Escapist characters are larger than life and likely out of the realm of plausibility, but they’re interesting enough or fun enough to be entertaining. Again, like Batman.
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Just because she was not good at heart it doesn´t mean that she was a cruel monster.
Until she put on the crown she still had some limits.
She was NOT absolutely rotten.
Okay, I gotta agree with theevil, now that I’ve thought about it. She was evil, and she changed.
Gotta disagree about the bad redemption thing though.
Discord didnt really have to deal with any of the consequences to his actions, and he still acts like a insufferable jerk most of the time.
I love Glim Glam, but most of her consequences came from her own sense of guilt.
Sunset Shimmer actually had to face the consequences of her actions, and rather than get bitter about it, or fall into a spiral of guilt, or try to justify her actions, she owned her actions, took responsibility for them in tangible, measurable ways, and learned to be a better person.
It’s just facts that when you go from trying to be a cruddy person to a better person, you often end up becoming a pretty decent person by the end of it.
She went from being a sadistic bully to someone who was the first to embrace someone fleeing from sadistic bullies.
if she wasn’t evil, then neither were Discord, Sombra, Chrysalis, or Cozy. :P
and her redemption is horrible. I’ve seen better. :/
Sunset was.
She wasn’t evil, just corrupted. I’m glad shes gotten a good redemption.
yeah, she didn’t. but it’s because she felt justified in all the bad things she did, not because she was good at heart.
some people are absolutely rotten and aren’t even aware of it. not everyone can be redeemed, you know.
And yet she was not willing to hurt a puppy.
Goodbye.
a sadist is guaranteed to be evil at heart. if you cannot accept that fact, then you have my pity.
there’s no point in convincing you that things aren’t always what they seem on the surface. as far as I’m concerned, this conversation’s over. ;(
Edited
I’m not whitewashing, I just thing before the whole transformation Sunset wasn’t exactly all that villanous. She was just a jerk, and the corruptions do makes their host either evil or eviler, and we don’t know if Luna was having a jerk fase before becoming NMM, so she could have become also a jerk in the meantime. Juniper was also a huge jerk and yet she wasn’t as bad as the monster she became. Satan was pretty much in some sense a brain affected Sunset that took her personal flaws to a greater level.
cruel ≠ evil? that’s stupid. if you are cruel, of course you’re going to be evil, no question about it! one trait that all bad people have in common is cruelty–the capacity to tear others down without qualm. she only played nice with authority figures because apart from being an asshole, she was also dishonest. so yes, she wasn’t just any asshole, she was a fraudulent and treacherous one. she knew how to pull a good girl act and get away with it for four years.
Midnight Sparkle, Gaea Everfree, and Nightmare Moon aren’t on the same level as Searing because (A) their normal counterparts–Science Twilight, Gloriosa Daisy, and Princess Luna–are not rotten to the core and (B) they ACTUALLY happen to be separate entities. Sunset wasn’t like the other three; she actually took pride in doing bad things and her mentality was akin to that of a felon. so no, she stopped being good at heart long ago.
Sunset Searing = Sunset Shimmer. how many times do I have to explain it to you. it doesn’t get any more straightforward and clearer than that. you’re looking too hard into all this crap about how Sunset wasn’t really evil at all even though she actually was.
you’re way too trusting toward Sunset. ironic for someone who’s rather distrusting. :/
I am sorry. I am not here to attack or antagonize you. I just want all this whitewashing over Sunset’s worst aspects to stop. that is all I want. :c
She was cruel but not omicidal. She would play nice with authority figures rather than go “fuck it I’ll destroy everything” or something like that. And posterior works show that Sunset always had personal flaws that she’s still trying to overcome, so while she was mean at first, she wasn’t all that much evil. In fact, if weren’t for the climax, Sunset felt more like a jerk than a villain.
Second, Midnight Sparkle looks positivelly excited with the magic, Nightmare Moon was definitely hammy and enjoyed everything she did, Gaea Everfree felt free of doing what she was. All corruptions play the whole “I am powerful thing”, but after being cleaned all of them are positively scarred and unhappy with their transformations. They seems like if they enjoy it, but the real guy is not.
Third, Satan had no restrain, but Shimmer DOES HAVE. None of them were nice, at least Shimmer wasn’t at first, but the demons are the guy with no restraint while Shimmer was more ordered and tried to be subtle if it suited her.
Four, I’m actually rather mistrustful. I value things with “everything is possible but I also put a value on it”, and in fact some people think I shoul trust more in other people.
the only character from any series I can think of (at the moment) whose mental state declined during or after their transformation is Broly, the Legendary Super Saiyan. his mental decline was so bad, it devolved to a point where the only word he could say was “Kakarot.” it was insane!
I don’t know if you’re even aware of it, but… it’s not good to think with such naïveté.
It wasn’t merely a physical transformation, the mentality also suffered. She planned to be a princess, not a deranged demon, the transformation was painful and she didn’t want that.
The demon’s mentality is what could Sunset be without restrain, and anyone would be scared of himself without restrain.
it’s just like with Freeza, Cell, and Super Buu in Dragon Ball Z: those guys change form to gain strength and new powers. well, actually, basically anyone in DBZ who uses superpowers can transform (though it’s not neccessarily physical in every case) - especially the Saiyans!
and she clearly knew what she was doing the whole time. she wasn’t being manipulated by some other being or under the influence of drugs (like, I don’t know, marijuana?).
She wasn’t exactly all too similar, Demon Sunset was incredibly willing to kill anyone and before transformation Sunset didn’t look all too happy about it. Later and arguably earlier transformations like Nightmare Moon worked in a similar fashion, they take the being ad corrupt their personality and wishes into a dangerous being. Once purified they clearly are regretful, kinda like having a hangover and discovering that the last night you almost killed a guy, destroyed a house and got millions in property damage, is not what ou really want, it was like being free from any control of yourself, and you are in some sense another person.
in EqG 1, Sunset was already evil, even before her transformation into a demoness. there was no corruption involved; the Element of Magic simply changed her form to reflect the kind of person she was.
and don’t you mention Jekyll and Hyde - they are two different persons inhabiting the same body. therefore, it’s not the same thing. >:w
Corruption by magic consistently show a being that does things the original wouldn’t do. Is like Jekill and Hyde all over the place, two entities in the same body.
originally, she wasn’t; she did after having her mind rewired by a magical rainbow laser.
@Twi Clown
you do know that Sunset Shimmer and Sunset Searing are the exact same person, right?
Searing, unlike Midnight Sparkle, is not a separate entity or force. she’s just a transformed Sunset. :P
Mary Sue’s have almost no character flaws except for something trite, like being clumsy.
Sunset still deals with guilt, a expectation of rejection, and even the remnants of her past as a bully. She shines through all that because at heart, she is a kind, empathetic soul. That’s why she is so popular.
Oh, yeah, the pony of shadows. Dammit.
It sounded cooler in my head.
Yeah, but I imagine if they wanted to do a story like you describe they’d probably hesitate because they technically already had an entity that broke off after a magic corruption. Then again, it’s not like these writers are shy about reusing very specific ideas… Like all the reformed unicorns we’ve got :>
The difference is that midnight never really does anything outside of taking advantage of twi’s fears, and even then it’s implied that midnight might has been gone long ago and twilight is just having some sort of emotional breakdown repressented by midnight.
I could see that being an interesting story, but it almost seems too similar to what Midnight Sparkle was in LoE, even though she barely had any role in the end. Still, thinking about it, this kind of approach would’ve improved Juniper Montage too, and would’ve fit the mirror theme.
An alternative that I’ve been always thinking is: What about a corruption that goes wrong, and instead of taking over the corrupted person as always, the person itself gets spared…….at the price of creating a entirely new entity born from the issues of that person but developing their own (lack of) conscience and developinghteir own agenda while the non-corrupted person tries to stop him/her/it?
Edited