@eternaljonathan#2
 
@eternaljonathan#2  

 
 
The spell he was working on didn’t directly involve the elements themselves, just ponies in general. When Twilight cast the spell the Elements simply seemed to activate due to their connection to the mane six.

@Background Pony #41A2  
Still not getting where you got the idea that Chrysalis and Celestia had any kind of relationship in the past, beyond knowing the other existed.
 
And what is a “rugged land referee”?
 
Also, Chrysalis has never been said to use black/dark magic, only changeling magic.

They could be a rugged land referee and the cause of the quarrel that Celestia did not give Chrysales the love and attention they needed and the Crisales may have escaped into the Forbidden Forest and got the Black Magic

@Background Pony #41A2  
Most of what you just said has no basis as far as I can see, and I am curious where you got those ideas (if you are referring to the text you posted, it’d be nice to have a source on that). We don’t know who defeated Tirek originally, only that he was captured and imprisoned in Tartarus for his crimes. And we don’t know if the animated series version of Chrysalis was even alive 1000 years ago (so far its only the comics that show her to be that long lived as far as I know). And there is zero indication that Chrysalis and Celestia ruled together. Heck we know from the season seven finale that Celestia and Luna are not that far apart in age, as they were both student-aged and not full grown when Starswirl was sealed away some years over a thousand years ago.

Background Pony #DFFC  
We also know that Samobra, Terike and Descord were defeated by the two sisters except Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis Nightmare Moon defeated by Celestia alone. Chrysalis do not know who defeated them so far. This means that the period between Nightmare moon Chrysalis is 100 years as I expect and I also expect that before The birth of Luna was Celestia and Chrysalis governing the land equestria and I expect that I are the badlands and got a quarrel between them and I also expect that Crisales fled and appeared as we know in season 2

ونحن نعلم أيضا أن ساموبرا، تيريك و ديكورد هزم من قبل الشقيقتين إلا كابوس القمر و كريساليس كابوس القمر هزمها سيليستيا وحدها. كريساليس لا يعرفون الذين هزمهم حتى الآن. وهذا يعني أن الفترة بين كابوس القمر كابوساليس هو 100 سنة كما أتوقع، وأنا أتوقع أيضا أنه قبل ولادة لونا كان سيليستيا و كريساليس يحكم الأرض إكتريا و أتوقع أن أنا الأراضي الوعرة و حصلت على مشاجرة بينهما و أنا أيضا نتوقع أن كريساليس فروا وظهر كما نعرف في الموسم 2

Maybe before equestria is true

@Background Pony #41A2  
That’s because in the series (unlike the comics) we have no indications yet how Chrysalis fits into Equestria’s history before her invasion of Canterlot. The closest we get is Thorax mentioning changelings have kept up their lifestyle of feeding on love for centuries.

I mean queen chrysalis

There is a piece missing from the Pie What about Chrasy ?

@MrSeyker  
I never said the elements were mandatory to ascend I said that they were too involved in the spell starswirl created for it to be a coincidence of a spell made for the pillars

@eternaljonathan#2
 
Honestly, that’s all on you.
 
The fact that the spell predates the elements and Cadance ascended before they were rediscovered are enough evidence that the elements are not essential to alicornhood.
 
I accept the new status quo.

@MrSeyker  
The elements are not conduits they are actual magical items that’s power can only be harnessed by those who represent them and friendship. And saying he used ponhenge is also a stretch because if the spell involved ponhenge then it would have affected ponhenge instead of the elements. Finally the whole retconning and ignoring the books and comics has to be the staffs dumbest action they’ve taken because the more non cannon they are the less people will want to buy them. Why should people invest time and money into stories that don’t matter at all? because that’s exactly why fans do buy them, to expand the lore and characters outside of the show, but since they’re non cannon they don’t expand the lore or the characters no matter how good or interesting the stories are. All it does is peeve off fans like me who hate finales like this because it’s a big middle finger to all the time and money I invested to try and learn more about the mlp universe. And all I get is mediocre excuses to cover up the staff writer’s bad writing and disregard for those comics and books I liked so much

@eternaljonathan#2
 
The elements are the power conduits that facilitated Twilight’s ascension into alicornhood, but Roydraco is right.
 
When Starswirl started working on the spell, which we must remember he never finished, he probably was either working on the assumption the virtues could be the conduit, or maybe even the ancient magic in Ponhenge (which was where Stygian made his failed attempt to replicate the Pillar’s magic, and what the elements were used for once Pony of Shadows destroyed the location).
 
Powerful magic is deffinitely needed to make a normal pony into an Alicorn, but not specifically the elements.
 
There is also Cadance’s own existence hinting to this. While the books are always ready to be retconned into obvlivion if the staff chooses to, the books established that Cadance was transformed by an external force too, and while the show hasn’t even bothered to explain her existance, Flurry Heart’s birth strongly hints Cadance was transformed.
 
And this was way back before Twilight even left Canterlot, and therefore the elements were not a factor.

what if windigo not kill?

“.@Ryodraco  
It was hinted at the end of the season 3 opener that Celestia was planning to try and turn Twilight into an Alicorn, so we if we’re making assumptions here we could also assume she left them with her for that spell in the finale. Second Twilight needed the elements to also fix her friends as well to reverse the effects of the spell. The side effects were from the fact Twilight casted the incomplete spell on the elements without caution meaning that spell was built around the magic of the elements, and while the pillars magic is similar to the elements they are not the same. Also based on the fact Cadence went to the same plane to meet Celestia when she ascended and that her scenario was very different it’s most likely the whole plane thing was probably more of a pit stop before the transformation was complete. And can you honestly believe that the writers really planned that far ahead four whole seasons ago? Of course not.

@eternaljonathan#2  
Technically the energy that transformed Twilight seemed to come from inside herself (set off by Celestia). The beams from the elements only seemed to send her to that astral plane to meet with Celestia. Looking back, Star Swirl’s unfinished spell made no mention of the elements (and they were left with Twilight in case Discord got out of hand), hence why Twilight was shocked when she found out it had an unintended effect on them.
 
I just don’t see it as that much of a stretch, especially when Star Swirl almost instantly recognizes the magic of the Tree of Harmony as being his own and the pillars.

@Ryodraco  
No it was the elements themselves that fired those beams that transformed Twilight. That’s far too specific and involving for the elements for the spell to coincidentally affect them as they did. And while it was never stated in the show based on what we saw and the fact that the elements were probably left with Twilight for that very purpose by Celestia It is more likely that the unfinished spell was based around the elements and the writers just created a plot hole that we’re trying out best to make sense of

@eternaljonathan#2  

 
Forgot to reply to this earlier, but it doesn’t necessarily contradict. That is the elements may not have existed when he made the spell, but the ponies who would create the elements out of themselves did. Its likely he intended the spell to interact with the internal magic of the Pillars (the elements themselves are never stated to be needed to create an alicorn after all).
 
Actually, it makes one wonder if Stygian’s attempt to copy magic got inspired by Starswirl’s attempt to create new magic.

@Ryodraco  
true it was harsher, but He was still their ally. It just not believable enough to me with all six of them there despite the times.

@eternaljonathan#2  
Oh I agree that it would have made more sense to communicate more, but I also got the sense that the Pillars and Stygian were not near as close as the Mane 6 are. Yes he brought them together, but they seemed to view each other as allies first and friends second, and were more inclined than modern ponies to assume nefarious purposes in things. It was a much harsher time after all. Heck just look at how Stygian assumed that because they threw him out none of them cared any more.
 
It does all lead to some fascinating possibilities for future stories if the show’s writers choose to pursue any of these dangling questions and plot threads.

@Starswirl  
And I agreed with you on that, but I stand by my opinion. I don’t think the situation was believable. If it was Starswirl alone then I wouldn’t have any trouble, but the rest of the pillars have their own personalities, and I can’t believe that the entire group wouldn’t have tried to ask him

@eternaljonathan#2  
Twilight did ask Starlight. And that’s what makes her different compared to her idol.  
Like Ryodraco said, fault lies on both sides. Which is why I think both should have expressed remorse.

@Ryodraco  
Hmm you have a point. He only stopped after they told him to leave, but I still feel that his silence and that the group didn’t ask him what he was doing in the first was more forced for the episode. Your argument does have a point I just don’t find the situation believable enough. None of the other five even tried to ask him either? six characters and not one of them tried to understand what he was doing? They just all went along with Starswirl? Do you think if the main six were in a similar situation with Starlight not one of them would have even bothered to ask her why she did it?

@eternaljonathan#2  
We see it happen in the flashback. Star Swirl tells him to leave, and Stygian briefly raises a hoof in protest but then simply hangs his head and walks off. He was not prevented from explaining himself by anything other than his own self esteem issues.
 
Even in his retelling of what happened Stygian doesn’t claim they didn’t let him explain, he only focuses on that they threw him out and how upset he was over that.
 
Pointedly Twilight doesn’t condemn either side when she finds out the truth, only saying it was a misunderstanding. If anything Star Swirl is very hard on himself for his part in the mess, and him not dividing blame can be seen as another way of showing he still has some black and white thinking.