Description image broke, so here it is again:

@Blissey1
 
I’m getting the feeling that I probably shouldn’t have made a comment about it either yesterday.

@Harmozel  
I know I said “wall of text” but I really kinda meant shut up altogether about it

@chubbyninja89
 
>acknowledges that the argument is that they both share some of the blame  
>Simultaneously claims that he’s trying to absolve Luna of all responsibility
 
Um… what?

@Blissey1  
Fair enough, if I could delete those comments I would I apologize for putting walls of text on this picture

@chubbyninja89  

 
and I’m about done with both of you. Take it to the forums or shut it, image of happy celestia is not the place to be discussing this. Next one of you drops a wall of text is gonna get a day off.

@Harmozel  
I guess the Elements are now the Deus Ex Macina in argument points now. But I’m done with your nonsense.
 
You’re just trying to find every freaking possible way to not have the blame be on Luna, when it’s clearly, at least 90%, completely her fault she became Nightmare Moon. You just can’t accept that.
 
And I’m using the % to a show that Celestia did have a little influence on Luna’s fall, if for no other reason to shut you up about the whole “they’re both at fault” crap, which is still a completely crappy “argument” to begin with.
 
And I can’t take your “argument” seriously when all you do is try to make it seem like both Celestia and Luna are equally to blame for Luna turning into NMM. You’re trying to force a compromise when there’s none to be had.
 
And have you ran a country? While I have not, I’m pretty damn sure it’s not all fun and games most of the time.
 
Everyone makes there own choices, end of story. Hitler didn’t just pop out evil, he grew and chose to follow a truly evil path, but he chose the path he walked. And Luna chose to let her bitterness and jealousy grow and fester, until it finally turned into Nightmare Moon.
 
And before you try to comeback with the oh so original “You don’t know what it’s like to be ignored” and so on reply think about this. If Nightbrat Moon would’ve won, it would’ve most likely killed everyone and everything on the planet, since, you know, crops and all that kind of stuff need sunlight and proper weather to properly live.
 
Yeah, not being appreciated or being overshadowed isn’t fun or easy, but that’s life. No one always gets what they want, even if it seems like some people do. So quit trying to use that as some be all end all excuse.

@chubbyninja89  
The whole point of the Elements of harmony is to show how ponies express and acknowledge what makes up friendship. Both Luna and Celestia wielded them to show that they had a strong bond with one another. This is about Celestia as a sister and a friend, not a ruler. In a land where friendship is magic, she values the bond she has with others. If she didn’t, that would make her an outright hypocrite reducing those bonds to something that only affects her.
 
Your only argument is hinging on the idea the Celestia was overworked as a ruler and too busy to be with Luna. Even if that’s true, you act like that frees Celestia from all responsibility as the older sister. That usually doesn’t workout in real life situations of overworked family members. Or do you believe the same excuse for why Celestia did NOTHING for Luna during DPDOMS, which makes her come off as apathetic and uncaring.
 
If this were all true it wouldn’t be the cut and dry “who held this % of responsibility”. Relationships don’t work like that where nothing is that black and white. Celestia would still feel sorrow and guilt over failing as a sister and not being there for her. We’re given a glimpse of that during the Princess Twilight Sparkle episode. It takes effort to be there for your family, if she wasn’t then Celestia didn’t try at all.
 
I’m still not getting your theoretical “there were ponies who appreciated the night.” Luna’s dilemma stemmed more from having to compete with a pony who does everything better than her and is loved all the more. In these situations logic doesn’t help.
 
I can’t take your argument seriously when it only paints Luna as a selfish brat and Celestia as a Saint. That’s reducing what makes the NMM incident so tragic into Thor and Loki where that dynamic does workout of the younger throwing a temper tantrum.

@Harmozel  
No, just no.
 
That’s not that way it is. If anything it’s like 15-20% Celestia fault and 80-85% or more Luna’s fault.
 
Luna’s the one who didn’t try to understand things as a whole like an adult would and didn’t look at the big picture of things. She didn’t look at how there were most likely ponies who did appreciate her and her night.
 
And saying that Celestia “neglected” Luna is complete bullshit. And I’ll say that without the slightest bit of regret.
 
It seems like Luna didn’t understand that Celestia being a ruler was a long and taxing occupation, which didn’t always allow her to spend time with her sister. It’s not exactly a job where you can just stop everything at the drop of a hat. And I’m sure that Celestia being who she is would’ve gladly dropped everything to spend time with those who she cares about, especially her baby sister. But Celestia also knew what it takes to be a good leader, that’s putting the needs of her people before her own.
 
So again, trying to say that Celestia just up and “neglected” Luna is complete crap and is a shitty argument, and I’m real tired of people trying to use it like it’s a real point.

@Harmozel  
This. It’s tragic from both sides.

@chubbyninja89  
Celestia and Luna both had a hand in their falling out. What they essentially are is a tragedy.
 
By throwing all the blame unto either sister you erase what makes them so tragic. Lullaby for a Princess handles this beautifully for example. Celestia is responsible for her neglect and Luna is responsible for letting her feelings control her and letting the Nightmare overcome her.
 
Luna was justified to have those feelings of jealousy and possibly inadequacy in the face of a sister, who on the surface, does everything better than her. Celestia controlled the night while she was gone, which when you think about it, doesn’t leave much for Luna to hold as her own. But she wasn’t justified on acting out on those feelings and becoming NMM. (Who are the few who appreciated Luna you’re speaking of?)
 
For Celestia, she had to run a country yes but that doesn’t excuse neglecting her sister until it was too late. What’s the point of calling yourself a bigger sister if you’re not going to express love and care for the younger sister.
 
So in the end, it’s about a pony who reluctantly banished her sister because they didn’t care for each other as they should have.

@Blissey1  
I meant it toward Luna fans. Sorry for not clarifying.

@chubbyninja89  

 
You must be new here

@Harmozel  
Well people bash Celestia for “doing nothing”, even though it’s pretty clear that she’s the one running a nation, which I’m sure is completely easy and never hard or stressing at all.
 
And if you look at Luna, think about the reasons that Nightmare Moon was created. She was a manifestation of Luna’s bitterness and jealously and all that, which if you look at it, was completely unjustified for her to feel.
 
It’s kinda like what Moondancer did, but coming from the other direction. Luna wanting the attention appreciation of all the ponies, rather than noticing the comparatively “few” ponies (and maybe others) who did appreciate what she did.
 
It’s funny how no one brings up this kind of thing when talking about Luna.

@chubbyninja89  
You know, I find it amazing how one can’t appreciate and like one Princess without bashing the other

@Nightweaver20xx  
What now?

Now let us lie  
Sad we lived sad we die  
Even in your pride  
I never blamed you
 
A mother’s love  
Is a sacrifice  
Together sleeping  
Keeping it all
 
No sympathy  
No eternity  
One light for each undeserved tear

Celestia is a really great mother figure. She shows so much love for her subjects, even if it brings her immense personal pain, cough bratty sister cough cough. That’s what any truly loving mother would do.

@Fwelin  
I agree, I think you’re right that Celestia may not just express emotions so readily like in the fan video. It’s just I felt it would’ve been more appropriate and show the profundity of the bond Luna and Celestia share.
 
I’d say I’m most invested in Luna and Celestia’s relationship and respective characters, so that explains why I wish they were given more development.

@Harmozel  
They definitely could have (and probably should have) given more development to Celestia, but the fact that the scene in question doesn’t have much isn’t bad in itself, because that’s part of Celestia’s personality. Just because she doesn’t express her emotions strongly like in that fan video doesn’t mean she doesn’t feel them.
 
I would love if we had an episode about her and Luna before NMM, or even an episode about her daily life in the current time, but at this point, it doesn’t seem like the writers will ever dedicate more than a minute here and there for Celestia. Meh.

@Fwelin  
That’s not what I’m saying, in fact that’s the opposite. I wish the show expressed the relationship between Luna and Celestia more in depth a la Lullaby for a Princess. You wouldn’t compare a real life case of fratricide with Thor and Loki, or attempted murder with Iron Man and Captain America or even between Captain America and the Winter Soldier.
 
There is such thing as applying realism to fiction instead outright forcing it into real life if you understand where I’m coming from.

@PonyPon  
No she doesn’t. When she convinced Twilight, that was after she had already beaten her and was not in danger of getting murdered while talking. You would have a point if Celestia had beaten NMM down and THEN had immediately sent her to the moon, but she didn’t.

@Harmozel  
Because that’s how you make conclusions about events in a piece of fiction? Just because they’re magical ponies doesn’t make the situation work differently in an example like this.
 
You can’t argue that “it’s a different universe, so real life stuff doesn’t ever apply”, or else you’re literally killing all attempts at discussing and analyzing the show at all.