@Frustration in Excelsis
 
socrates was one of history’s greatest trolls ♥
 
< ( so uh, yeah we totally uh, are gonna kill ya )
 
( what, the poison’s taking too long to brew? ) >
 
< ( no, just… sure ya don’t want to defend with exile? )
 
( oh no, no I wouldn’t want to impede the progress of our fine justice system. I know you just love murdering helpless old men. ) >  
( otherwise why would you have proposed it? ) >
 
. o O ( I hate that guy. )

@Ardashir  
You know, that’s actually pretty similar to how ancient Athenian legal courts worked – the idea was that, once guilt had been established, both the prosecution and the defendant would propose a punishment. The prosecutor would typically propose something ridiculous (the death penalty, usually), so that the defendant would be forced to propose a comparatively less extreme but still significant punishment and take that up instead.
 
That’s how it went down with Socrates, incidentally. His prosecutors called for the death penalty expecting him to ask for something like exile instead, but then he proposed something too lenient to accept (a pension and free meals for life) so the death penalty it was.

@Magic Man  

 
Or maybe it was that style of negotiation where you begin with an impossible to meet demand that you know they can’t meet. Then you “reluctantly” let yourself be argued down from that to what you really want.
 
And if they go for your first offer? Double it and demand more.

@Philweasel
 
well yes, assuming queen whatsherfaust a thousand moons ago didn’t say “psh, 10% interest? sure, we’ll pay that off in no time!” then it’s totally illegitimate for these gryphons to retroactively charge it.
 
and yes… interest is their livelihood. that’s… kinda why I don’t much like money lenders.

@redweasel  
I think it depends on the intent. It’s very important to note that money lenders earn their profit from interest, so forcing you to pay interest is their livelihood.
 
Those aren’t the only people who lend out money though. In this case it was more a deferred payment, buy now pay later. There was no expectation of profit through interest.

@Ardashir
 
sure, if you can get the loan shark to agree to it. generally, they’ll politely accuse you of stealing from them by denying them potential future profits, and then remind you that the collection agency’s coming to call if you don’t agree to their demands.

@redweasel  
Isn’t it possible to set it up that interest stops accruing after a certain date?

@Anon-a-Miss
 
that and interest continues to accrue while you pay installments. it’s a scheme by which people get held in debt indefinitely.

@FrustrationInExcelsis  
I mean, Equestria IS currently on a war footing thanks to the Storm King. And yes, it seems that the show and comic are retconning the Movie a bit by making it a proper war.
 
So when all you have is a hammer and your neighbors are acting like asshole nails…

Part of me hopes this ends the way one ‘Sergeant Bilko’ episode did. In it Bilko is visiting the family of one of his men, who is an Indian. Bilko finds an old treaty Uncle Sam signed with one of the guy’s ancestors that is apparently somehow still valid. Before it’s over Bilko has promised the Indians that he can get them 90% of the USA back, and the US government is about to sign a fortune over to Bilko and his Red Brothers to buy their way out of this…
 
When the historian Bilko hired to verify the treaty tells him that the ‘Chief’ had no legal authority with his tribe and therefor the whole thing is null and void.
 
The Indians were kind of annoyed with Bilko after that.

@FrustrationInExcelsis  
Indeed it would.
 
I’m trying to remain optimistic about this arc. There hasn’t been much casual racism by Princess Twilight yet, which is a good sign!

@Starswirl
 
Heh, that might be fun to see.
 
Or maybe finding out that the original contract specified payment in something that was really precious a millennium in the past but is largely worthless now? Might not be that far-fetched – for instance, aluminium used to be worth more than gold a few centuries ago, before we had the ability to obtain large quantities efficiently, but isn’t worth much now.
 
Seeing Smug Greedy’s face when he realizes he gets no land and only a load of worthless dirt or junk in payment would be a delight.

@FrustrationInExcelsis  
Not sure yet. Maybe finding a document that proves they did pay, but were overcharged and could now demand interest on that. Something like that. To be clear, “logical” in this case means logical from an outside perspective.

@Starswirl
 
How so?

The most logical way out of this would be in a way that forces Lord Greedygrin to eat those words.

Personally I don’t still the griffons being depicted as villains as such. Gestalt and Glenda both seem very nice so far, though Gestalt is a tiny bit aloof. I mean these other chuckles seem like douches, but they’re within their rights to demand these things if only as intimidation.
 
As far as I’m concerned, we haven’t seen a true villain yet.

But having all that sum to themselves is greedy, its rude that’s what they care about and not the sake for others.

@Itsthinking  
Listen, strange ponies hidin’ in castles distributin’ wings is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical equestrian ceremony!
 
If I went ‘round sayin’ I was Princess, just because some fuzzy bint stuck a horn on my head, they’d put me away!

@thorondragon  
Are we talking about the comic book writers or just writers in general? Cause the standards of writing the sisters is pretty bad in the show, often just as bad or worse then the comics.
 
We got Celestia leaving griffon stone to rot for a century or two, Celestia and Luna getting captured by changeling grunts, having no diplomatic relations with the queen of the hipporiffs yet having a band-aid solution from their orb be their biggest ‘break emergency glass’, endangering the crystal empire (expansion aside, without the elements they were all just fodder for a high risk situation), the Discord/Tirek incident which still befuddles whether it was incompatance, indifference, taking part in one of Discord’s Q-like tests, or a sum of all three, and the list goes on.
 
Yes she has kept the peace for 1000 years there is no denying she is smart and capable at her 100%, but outside Equestria and in current general competance, I don’t things were ever as perfect as the beginning of the show portrayed. I honestly don’t think we’re ever going to see a confident, nonaloof Celestia at 100% until she reunites with Sunset. Narratively, I can see why there would be a big crack in her armor until she reunites with both her sister (done) and her first pupil (something they’ve both been avoiding, EG debates aside). Sunset is the likely reason why such a wise and relatable leader kept Twilight at such a neurotic and arms length leash since episode 1.
 
Alao, one can’t say Celestia couldn’t of benefited from the ponies being a relatively powerful but very easy going species for the past 1000 years.
 
If this was Show Celestia, she would most likely act aloof and toss the negotiations to Twilight who would crack under the pressure of diplomats far more clever and experianced then young Ember or cinnamonbun Thorax.

@Itsthinking  
Out and out refusing would cause a diplomatic nightmare for the future but that’s about it.

A government with its executive run by council is so unwieldy and powerless (as depicted here) that there is no real threat to Equestria.

@Background Pony #4F76
 
facepalm
 
No my complaint is that all characters involved are appear to have taken level of their senses, overlooking the clear obvious solution/outcome and arguing to take a completely different routs that not only counterintuitive but is worse for EVERYONE including the Griffons, simply for the sake of generating conflict, as such the narrative suffers feeling flimsy and somewhat contrived. My other complaint is that the Griffons are being shoehorned into the villain role in almost all of their appearances in the comics to the point that, with a few, exceptions they come off as less characters then caricatures, and the possibly that they may have legitimate grievances or that the ponies may be in the wrong gets glossed over or ignored entirely, all for the sake of forcing them into the villain role.
 
Even if we put aside this is not a work of fiction the actions character still don’t make sense even with the spin you’re tying to put on it, because Equestria cannot pay the full sum of the debt if collapses financially from trying, and failing, to pay it all at once, therefor the Griffons get far less money then if the debt was payed in installments. Heck the interest is still going to be building over those installments so the longer it takes for Equestria to pay the whole debt the more money the Griffons get.

@Background Pony #884E  
So I apologize if I sound rude but… your complaint is the griffin politicians are doing stupid, selfish things purely for their own benefit? Isn’t the entirety of world history composed of assholes with too much power making things worse for everyone but themselves?

@Background Pony #884E  
Griffins gotta grift.

@Dustcan
 
The “phased transfer” was referring to a phased land transfer, it was only later in the page that a monitory settlement was brought up, which is odd because typically that would be the first thing to be considered in a situation like this. In addition paying by installments is perhaps the only way to pay it back, Raven said the debt would bankrupt them seven times over so they literately do not have enough money to clear it in one installment, and you can’t really collect the other 6 sevenths of the debt if the nation that owes it implodes from emptying their treasury, liquidating tons of state assets and then still going bankrupt. I’m a political science major so for me this whole thing is just… Uggg >_<
 
Sorry I was rather harsh and hyperbolic in my first post, these kinds of artificial conflicts just annoy me particularly when I can see simple ways they could have been resolved or that the writers could have gone about it better, and I’m just getting so tired of seeing the Griffons being by-in-large dragged through the muck or vilified every time they appear in the comics to generate conflict and/or make the protagonists look good. =(