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They should’ve tried talking with her first. THEN used the MDW stunt. That’s what 28PL did right.
yeah, they should have said they did it because she needed their help, and couldn’t be a hero all on her own.
then she’s like what’s with the disguise then, and they’re all we wanted to show you that you can be a hero without bragging about it.
The thing about that is, Rainbow Dash would have needed their help anyway even if she wasn’t gloating for being egotistical.
Think about it, the runaway cart? She tried to stop it but it was all downhill and she didn’t have enough strength to stop it on her own. AJ would have had to jump in anyway.
The construction site? She still would have had to dodge and maneuver through tons of falling rubble and even then she would have only been able to save a few ponies at most. Pinkie would have had to step in too.
The Dam? If the structure is so weak that simply leaning on it too hard would cause the entire thing to collapse, then it would have broken down eventually even without her help. Twilight would have had to step in any way.
The events of the situation wouldn’t have changed even if he came in humble instead of bragging.
Not to mention the fact that the costume itself was completely pointless. If they really wanted to show her how a real hero did things they would have just gone and done what they had to do without any costume whatsoever. Or at the very least assist her and show her that even a hero needs help sometimes.
sure would have been nice if they mentioned that they were trying to save her butt, instead of saying that the only reason they were doing it was because she was bragging.
option 1: have ponies not be in danger, unless dash is a braggart
option 2: have her friends say that she needed help saving ponies in danger, instead of only talking about her bragging
option 3: broken aesop
Emotionally, yes they did. By not trusting her enough to actually speak to her on their own.
No they did not. They just jumped into the “let’s fuck with her behind her back”
That doesn’t change the fact that they immediatly went with that idea instead of talking to her. When the other mane characters make mistakes (like Rarity in Sisterhooves Social) she’s given the chance to realize that she made a mistake on her own and THEN let her friends help set her straight. Here Rainbow Dash wasn’t, so the whole episode comes off as just dumping on her.
Because they were being hypocrites without realizing it. Not mention that Fluttershy didn’t even DO anything in the grand scheme of things aside from said flyby when RD expressed the joy that flying was the one thing she was the best at. So what? RD wasn’t allowed to be proud that she could fly?? That is NOT humbling someone, that’s just pouring salt in the wound.
That does NOT count. Neither of those were them taking directly to her, no words of concern were exchanged, no ACTUAL conversation happened. If they can’t bother to speak with her directly then they have no right to pull a stunt like this.
THIS is talking to her:
your current filter.
your current filter.We SEE them make direct attempts instead of heckling her with hushed words and excusing that as “talking”, and when she doesn’t listen, they try it one-on-one with Pinkie, not to mention that we see her pranks get more and more dangerous as time goes on, and by that point, she’d made her bed and had to sleep in it.
Prior to MDW’s appearance, RD’s bragging rights simply make her insufferable to her friends - there’s no real harm to the town that she directly causes, just that she’s annoying. But they never approach her directly on this, nor are we shown that when they are alone away from RD’s fanclub, that RD is impossible to be around.
If they had shown a couple ways that RD’s heroism going to her head to the detriment of their friendship or to the safety of Ponyville, that might have made the need to bring RD down a notch with MDW a stronger driver for the episode. Some ways could have been RD ditching a weekly Pet Playdate, not being there to help one of the others because she’s off signing autographs, or perhaps something to do with letting her weather activities slide, and RD simply waves these off as “I’ll get it next time, guys, promise!”
Then, and only then, does it make sense for the Mane five to do what they did. You still end up with the same conclusion and friendship report, but the characterization and reasoning for the creation of MDW makes a lot more sense.
Oh but she does, Applebuck Season, the FlimFlam episode, Bats, the Cart Before the Ponies (though I give that one some leeway since all three of them were in the wrong) and lets not forget The Last Roundup.
For someone who complained about RD not being humble she sure didn’t hesitate to make it sound like she ditched her entire family for another job.
Yes she was trying to payback a debt she owed and didn’t want ta disappoint everyone who was rooting for her, but in doing so she ignored the obvious option: telling the truth.
Would it have killed her to send a note that said this?
“To my friends, I’m sorry to say I wasn’t able to win the rodeo. However, I can still get the money. A mare named Cherry Jubilee has offered me a temporary job in Dodge Junction for a few weeks, all of my earnings will go to fixing Town Hall. Love, AJ”
And then when confronted on the issue she just ran away instead of facing the music, facing that fact that she’s not as great as she wanted to believe, the fact that she failed. She ran away because of her EGO.
Compare RD in Rainbow Falls, yes she tried to back out of making a choice, but she came clean on her own in the end. With AJ? THEY HAD TO CHASE HER DOWN JUST TO GET HER TO FESS UP.
So yeah, contrary to popular belief, AJ is MUCH more egotistical than RD.
[bq=“redweasel”]
Edited
your current filter.it’s fine if you don’t want rainbow dash to be destructive, but it would have improved the episode IMO. as-is, she didn’t really deserve to get laughed at.
“um, autobiographies are supposed to be written by the pony they’re about.”
they didn’t talk effectively or seriously to her about anything, but not never talked to her. there was a half-hearted attempt that was passive/aggressive as fuck.
Here’s why MMDW fails and 28PL succeeds:
The aspect of “SHOW, DON’T TELL”.
“28 Pranks Later” worked better with that reason because of that solitary aspect. We actually SEE them SIT HER DOWN AND TALK WITH HER. We see Dash’s pranks get increasingly more dangerous as time goes on. And the group has Pinkie confront her one on one. And by that point when she refuses she’s made her bed and has to sleep in it. But instead the gang DIDN’T talk to her, then messed with her behind her back, then praised THEMSELVES (instead of Twilight praising the runaway vehicle save, AJ praising the Dam rescue, etc) in front of her.
While I don’t deny that she could’ve saved Berry if she stopped signing autographs, Twilight could’ve easily caught the balloon with her magic. She’s lifted heaver things before like in boast Busters.
That’s not a legit excuse. If someone’s “totally asking to get punched” am I justified in doing it with no prior provocation?
That’s just stupid. ash is NOT a villainous character. What you’re describing is something pre-reformation Trixie would pull.
I suggest you go watch the episode again, they never talked to her about anything. They just silently heckled her behind her back.
So? AJ said “she was acting arrogant ever since.”, so at least a day or two has passed. confronting her at home wasn’t an option? She has to sleep sometime.
Unintentionally or not, driving her into depression was NOT the best solution.
Sshe payed for the factory indecent via utterly failing in her attempts. The running of the leaves wasn’t ruined since she only targeted AJ and vice-versa. And again, AJ is just if not more thick-headed (Applebuck Season, The last Round Up, Bats), and she’s been the cause of more problems in an episode, and yet they’ll willingly try talking to her.
Again, why isn’t RD given the same respect?
They should’ve just showed up as ‘‘themselves’’ to do heroic actions and pointed out how Dash is better off with allies, or called her out on the autograph sessions since that could have got somepony killed. It’s not like RD would’ve said “hey! Stop saving Ponies when I’m the hero!”. We’ve seen her praise her own friends for their heroic actions before, she’d just see it as them helping her out. Worst case scenario she’d call them her sidekicks.
And the Mayor being in on it just makes their MDW stunt ever stupider.
And what if she pulled a Pinkie/AJ and left town because of it? What would their excuse be then? “Oops?”
Again, that’s something they could’ve tried EARLIER.Maybe even mention how bad Shimmer-Wing-Rarity made HER feel back in Cloudsdale!
While RD probably wouldn’t listen, it would’ve been a nice gesture of faith if we saw that her friends trusted her enough to at least TRY that first! Just jumping into the Caped Crusader scheme shows a lack of respect towards their friend; they were basically saying “Why bother?” instead of “We have to try!”, and that just isn’t the way they roll. Even the BRIEFEST attempt to talk Dash down (even if it failed utterly) would have PROFOUNDLY changed the feel of this episode.
Sure, Dash has an ego and occasionally she trips on it. However she also has a paralyzing fear of screwing up and being humiliated in public (as seen in Sonic Rainboom”), and her friends KNOW this!
In fact, the episode would’ve worked a lot better if it they compared the masked hero to a group of heroes that RD was already familiar with:
The Wonderbolts.
Think about it, RD I idolizes and adores them and aspires to be just like them. So in hindsight the mane five could steer her in the humble direction by reminding her that while the Wonderbolts do pull off shows and enjoy the fame they know when the time for showboating is and place the civilians their rescuing as a top priority.
BOOM. Rainbow gets the message and straightens out her act because again, it’s a hero that she aspires to be like. Therefore the main five come off as more well-meaning and less mean-spirited in the grand scheme of things.
Now I may dislike the episode, but I am not opposed to MDW coming back in the future… but only as long as she’s not just an unbeatable rival for RD. Maybe have RD don the mantle herself for some superhero antics or something?
I don’t hate mare Do-Well as a concept, but her debut episode was just BAD.
your current filter.
your current filter.she’s more of a “show”y pony than a “talk”y pony.
her friends were also unneccesarily cruel, literally laughing at her when they should have tried to teach her the lesson then. but I couldn’t call it torture. they were just being uncharacteristically petty. this episode trashed the character of the other 5 way more than it did rainbow dash, by painting them as friendship is witchcraft style manipulators, who couldn’t even think of trying the honest and straightforward approach, because they were too mad to let dash get away without a little pain, and the sneaky way was just too much fun.
>>1266186t
Well apparently you didn’t pay attention or just wanted to look for excuses for their cruel actions.
If that’s the case, why did her friends bother with costumes at all? That was done SOLELY so Rainbow Dash wouldn’t know who they were. It served no other purpose and I’m sure took time and energy that could’ve gone to helping ponies sooner. But they prioritized teaching a “lesson” over saving lives. This isn’t like super-heroes safeguarding their identities in DC or Marvel. They had no secrets or love ones to protect. They only bothered with them for the purposes of messing with Rainbow Dash.
And no, Fluttershy’s crashing with Rainbow Dash wasn’t “an unfortunate accident”. She did thatIMMEDIATELY after RD started gloating that she could fly, she did that on propose just to show off. If it was to make sure everybody was safe Twilight could’ve easily done that herself and Fluttershy didn’t even NEED to be in the costume.
They didn’t do a single thing to help until after they became annoyed with Rainbow’s attitude. If their priority was saving lives, they wouldn’t have bothered with the costumes and the charade. They would’ve just went out and helped, period. Instead, they put teaching Rainbow Dash a lesson over saving lives. How is that any better than what Rainbow did?
If anything, it’s worse.
The most crucial are the issues that the Mane Five conceived of this plan
beforethe balloon incident or anything like it occurred and most importantly, that was NOT their motivation for it. Their motivation was that “heroes don’t brag.” The episode never established why arrogance or over-confidence was bad beyond the fact that the attitude that came along with it was abrasive and unpleasant, and even then, it was only her friends who took issue with said attitude, no one else did: her friends didn’t like her attitude. That was it.@redweasel
>>1170421t
First of all: She did NOT “Totally deserve it”!
Aside from the fact that RD has bragged before, the Mane Five bragging about their own accomplishments behind her back and then laughing at her is just downright cruel. You don’t just do the exact same thing you’re trying to teach your friend NOT to do, and how can they call her out on bragging and saying she should be humble if they showed up at the parade? That comes off as more hypocritical since the episode practically begins with her enjoying the fact that she has a fan club and the Mane five get on her case about her huge ego while she’s at a gathering of said fans at Sugarcube Corner, which was technically after her heroics. And yet it was ok for Mare Do Well to attend her own parade under the same circumstances?
They both technically EARNED that praise.
Not to mention that with episodes like Applebuck Season, The Last Roundup, Bats, Sonic Rainboom, and Sweet and Elite(which takes place AFTER this one!) under their belts, AJ and Rarity are the LAST characters I want teaching someone about humbleness!
Second of all: Humiliating her was NOT the right answer!
Many people like to point out that she put many lives at the list due to her bragging. With the hot air balloon I can understand, if RD stopped signing autographs she could have saved the mare before MDW popped up.
But with the rest? Even if she had been super-modest and humble, nothing would’ve been different at all. For example:
Runaway carriage - Nothing more RD could have done with this one than she did. RD did not have the strength to even slow it down at all. She even hurt herself trying to stop it. AJ would’ve had to step in anyway.
The construction site- Nothing more RD could have done with this one than she did. She barely saved one of workers and only got out unhurt due to his help. Again, Pinkie would’ve had to step in.
The dam- If the dam is so fragile that simply leaning against it too hard caused it to give away, it was definitely gonna collapse anyway.
Being modest before then wouldn’t have altered a thing, she couldn’t have handled those on her own regardless of whether she went in humble or bragging. The argument since Rainbow Dash’s ego could’ve risked lives, therefore what her friends did was correct, fails because her friends NEVER said a word about trying to prevent Rainbow from making mistakes or pointing to how over-confidence can lead to messing up. The ONLY justification they gave in-show was ‘heroes don’t brag.’ An endless parade of implausibly close-together disasters still doesn’t validate shattering a friend’s self-esteem and driving them into depression without even TRYING to talk to her.
And there’s the biggest contradiction in this argument.
Twilight tried to talk to Applejack when she was doing the harvest by herself in Applebuck Season. But Twilight and the others never did that when it came to Rainbow’s bragging.
Why doesn’t Dash deserve the same respect?
They should have sat Dash down before any of that, as a group and given her a firm but gentle talking-to. The exact one they gave AFTER emotionally torturing her. Tell her that it’s okay to be proud, but not to rub others’ faces in it. Tell her somepony is going to get hurt while she brags, and then NOPONY will cheer. Then, if Dash rebuffs them, THEN they are JUSTIFIED in their actions! But no, her friends made it clear to her that believe she’s too thickheaded and stupid to even TRY to reason with, and they duped the entire town into worshiping a made-up Pony who promptly vanished forever.
There is no way Rainbow could’ve possibly gotten the “right” message from Mare Do Well. Her reaction (which the others should’ve known) would be to either try to outdo her, or to quit and retreat into self-pity and doubt. How could she get that message? “Wow, MDW doesn’t sign autographs and ponies like her. I guess I should…” there’s no logical way to draw a proper conclusion, RD didn’t learn her lesson from MDW herself, but her friends. Think about it, she only reacted negatively towards MDW but when she was faced with her friends, she actually swallowed her pride and acknowledged her faults, further proving that just talking to her might’ve WORKED. So in hindsight: MDW’s creation was POINTLESS.
So yeah, MMDW is a bad episode. It may have had a well-meaning moral, but that moral falls flat when the one on the receiving end is turned into a victim and the ones giving it come off as hypocrites.
(and the only reason to do that flyby was to show off fluttershy’s wings, so they clearly weren’t trying to conceal that stuff, even if the costume did.)
when rainbow asked “why,” this is what twi and aj said:
“of course we want you to be a hero”
“but a real hero doesn’t brag”
so yes, they were taking the mare do well guise because they wanted her to be a hero who didn’t brag. they didn’t just coincidentally decide to be a superhero when it’d irritate her the most. it was for her sake, because they cared about her.
your current filter.it’s funny because I liked the episode. they tricked rainbow dash, lied the whole time, made an idiot out of her, and it was awesome. she totally deserved it. they were trying to teach her some humility (aka humiliate her) but they also clearly had the right idea when it came to saving people instead of signing autographs. rainbow dash would have gotten somepony–and herself–seriously hurt if nobody had humiliated her. people complain that they never tried to reason with her, but come on this is rainbow dash, and you’re just going to ask her to be sensible and demure? plus it was absolutely hilarious how good they were at infuriating her.
No.
They had their own story that couldn’t be directly shown because it would spoil Mare Do Well’s identity. It’s a misunderstanding story that comes off as a conspiracy story because we couldn’t properly see one side of it.
I watched the episode while focusing on the others instead of Rainbow Dash and noticed a bunch of things that changed everything:
-The others were very dedicated about saving ponies, risking their own lives and all (specially Applejack and Pinkie Pie). They also left the scene as soon as they were done saving.
-The disguise is meant to hide not only its user’s identity, but also their race by means of a hat that covers the horn and a cape that covers the wings. It accidentaly looks like a superhero.
-It’s Mayor Mare the one who comes up with the name “Mare Do Well”, on her own, associating it with the disguise and turning it into an identity.
-It makes sense that the characters will notice a screaming pony on a balloon falling from the sky, a bunch of screaming tourists in a carriage, a huge construction getting destroyed, and huge flood coming to Poniville
-The one who saved the pony in the balloon never noticed Rainbow Dash was there, she was on the rooftops and reached the pony way before Dash.
-Neither did Applejack ever notice Dash while saving the tourists in the carriage, she appeared long after Dash had her try, at the last moment, and came very close to falling through the cliff herself.
-Only Pinkie Pie noticed Rainbow Dash but only after the saving was done. Rainbow Dash angrily confronts her, Pinkie runs away. So far Pinkie is the only one that knows Dash hates Mare Do Well.
-Before stoping the flood, Twilight saves Rainbow Dash, but doesn’t know she tried to fix the dam or that she hates Mare Do Well, she’s too busy fixing the dam.
-People assume Fluttershy did nothing heroic with her flight, but when the characters talk about what they did as Mare Do Well at Sugarcube Corner, Fluttershy says that she cared for everypony’s safety. She doesn’t talk about how good her flight was. Therefore her flight was to make sure everybody was safe, and crashing with Rainbow Dash at that moment was an unfortunate accident.
-At Sugarcube Corner, none of them knows what Rainbow Dash had been doing or that she hates Mare Do Well, except Pinkie Pie who is not present during this scene.
-The others playfuly tease Rainbow Dash, but when she finaly loses it and leaves in anger, they are surprised and confused by this.
-After they lead her to an alley to talk to her, instead of saying “Mare Do Well did this” or “Mare Do Well is good at that” like they did before, they say “I saved these ponies” or “I did that thing”.
-Twilight says that “celebrating your accomplishments is natural”, this is what they were doing at Sugarcube Corner because they felt good about their deeds, but they did so indirectly by talking about Mare Do Well, since the name had caught on thanks to Mayor Mare.
My conclusion is that their actions as Mare Do Well weren’t directed at Rainbow Dash at all, they just saw how fame got to her head and didn’t want the same happening to them if they ever saved ponies.
They wanted to be anonymous, the Mare Do Well identity wasn’t part of their plan, but it didn’t get in their way either so they played along.
They didn’t try to “fix” Rainbow Dash or anything, they did their own thing whenever the situation called for it, and it accidentaly clashed with post-fame Dash. It’s only when they get to see how Dash is feeling that they decide to do something about her: They find a way to talk to her.
Again, we couldn’t see their side of the story much because it would spoil the reveal at the end. The episode has flaws, but people hate it for erroneous reasons.
inb4 tl;dr
Edited
so, they didn’t trick her, didn’t lie to her the whole time, and didn’t make an idiot out of her?
your current filter.That’s not what happened at all. People completely misunderstood the episode but instead of giving it another chance they just kept getting madder and angrier and making it look worse by making more angry messages, ““analysis”” that only repeat what others said, and cringy stuff like this comic.
Edited
Well, they do seem to completely overlook/instantly forgive RD treating her friends as ego-stroking devices, focusing more upon her self image and becoming obsessed with outdoing everyone for personal glory.
I do apologise if that comment irked you though, it was made more in irritation at the depiction seen in the comic than anything else.
Not to mention the hypocrisy.
“A real hero doesn’t brag!”
{brags}
RD fans only hate the episode because her friends outperform her? not because her friends trick her, lie to her the whole time, and make an idiot out of her?
huh
That line was pretty funny tbh.
Yeah, looking at the three pages posted so far on DB, the artist has catapulted Rainbow Dash deep into Mary Sue territory.
Blech.