Ember Tags

Can’t we just use an “Ember” tag instead of everyone fighting over “Princess Ember” and “Dragon Lord Ember”? Seems a whole lot simpler.

the ember tag is already in use

For an old-gen pony? I think this character is a little more important…

@NightStalker  
And why is that?  
Princess Ember appeared in exactly one episode so far. Just because she’s popular doesn’t mean she’s a major character already.
 
The best suggestion I saw so far is to use princess ember as standard and dragon lord ember when it’s obvious she’s in that role, but with the main tag princess ember implied.
 
I believe most people could live with that.
 
(And just for the record, the credits call her Princess Ember too)

And for those who care, this has already been discussed to death in the comments section of this image: >>1133662
 
Personally, I’m for Princess Ember since it seems to be what people are using anyway. Could alias Dragon Lord Ember to it, or leave that tag for images that explicitly show her using that title and/or ones that show her carrying around the bloodstone scepter.

@Exedrus  
I’d suggest using ‘princess ember’ as the main tag, use ‘dragon lord ember’ for when she’s obviously in that role, and add the implication “dragon lord ember -> princess ember”.

Like I said in the other thread, Ember stopped being a princess and became Dragon Lord when she succeeded Torch. You could use the “Dragon Lord Ember” tag only for pictures with her holding the Bloodstone Scepter and “Princess Ember” for pictures of her without the scepter, but that’s needlessly complicated. Ember is currently Dragon Lord and will be Dragon Lord in any future appearances. Just call her “Dragon Lord Ember” and be done with it.
 
@patec  
For the record, Derpy Hooves was credited as Muffins in Slice of Life. The credits are not infallible.

@kleptomage  
I see it like the ‘princess twilight’ tag. Twilight’s role as “just” Twilight Sparkle came before her role as “Princess Twilight”, thus is more general. The two are distinct, however, and as such are not aliased together, but are connected with the implication “princess twilight -> twilight sparkle”.  
Here, ‘princess ember’ is a stand-in for ‘ember’ (since that tag is already taken for a G1 character), and so should be treated as if it were just her name. ‘dragon lord ember’ represents the more specific role she takes at the end of the episode, and should remain a distinct subset of, and imply, ‘princess ember’.

@DragonWraith  
Yeah, i support this idea. Use Princess Ember as main and Dragon Lord Ember when she clearly is shown in that role.
 
Another question: who ever said she stopped being a princess?  
That role is pretty wonky in the show. Traditionally a prince/princess is the son/daughter of a king/queen. Then how is Twilight a princess? Her parents are normal citizens for all we know.
 
Also, princesses in Equestria can clearly be rulers. So why not Princess Ember?  
I see absolutely no reason to remove that title from her…

Sure princesses in pony society are rulers, but as far as we’ve seen dragon society, princesses aren’t rulers. She’s the dragon lord and be done with it.  
also she clearly disliked being called a princess so why shouldn’t we respect that?  
and as kleptomage said, the credits aren’t always what we use as character tags.  
Why do you guys want her to be a princess so bad when she is actually a dragon lord?

@Background Pony #23D8  
Because if we just went with ‘dragon lord ember’, then we would have no way of tagging her before she became Dragon Lord. She wasn’t always Dragon Lord. She was always a princess.

Oh my fucking god guys can you just pick a way to tag her and use it, why are we even debating this so much

If it were up to me, I would tag all of her pictures with Ember, and re-tag the G1 pony pictures as Ember (G1) or something similar.
 
Unlike Twilight, who underwent a physical transformation, there is no visible difference between princess and dragon lord Ember…except from the scepter. However, there is no implication that she must ALWAYS have the scepter within her physical possession to be regarded as the dragon lord.
 
Someone could easily draw a picture of Ember without the scepter, but say in the DeviantArt description that she’s meant to be the Dragon Lord, and then people would just be doing tag wars and arguing in the comments.
 
When I said that this Ember is more important than G1 Ember, I meant that because there’s sure to be a LOT more use out of the tag for this new character, not some arbitrary G4 vs. G1 importance. I just felt that it would make a lot more sense to use a simple tag for something that is going to be used a lot

@NightStalker  
That does make sense.  
There are only 72 existing pictures with the tag “ember”, so it’s not like it would be a massive project to retag them or anything (especially if we just manually remove the tag from ones that aren’t the g1 pony, which is only 17 images and most of which either don’t really need it or can be retagged to something else, then alias “ember” to “ember (g1)” and then unalias it).

@NightStalker  
That is exactly my reasoning. There is no way of telling if she’s the dragon lord or not in a random fanart. So it makes no sense to assume it.  
Twilight has her wings. For her it’s clear.
 
Ok, I’ll make this quick now.  
I’m tired of this debate.
 
Main tag is Princess Ember (it already is looking at the existing implications). dragon lord ember can be a tag for when it’s clearly showing her in this position. I will imply Princess Ember to it.
 
We can always change this in the future.. but for now this is going to be the solution.

@NightStalker  
I agree. Besides, Luna, Celestia, Cadance and especially Shining Armor, the latter of which has exactly the same kind of progression into statuses as Ember, going from a lower status to a position of a ruler basically, they all go by 1 tag, so if Ember gets more they would obviously require the same kind of attention, at least that’s what I think.
 
it’s important to note here that there will be questions rising about that after all, it may take a while to notice it, but I expect more and more people to associate the lot of royals among one another and see the difference in tagging, or lack there of as the case will be.

Ok, now that there actually IS a forum discussion and not simply people yelling in the comment section of an image, I’m gonna throw in my two cents.  
There’s no reason to have a ‘Princess Ember’ tag and a ‘Dragon Lord Ember’ tag cause there is no real visibly discernible difference in the two. Saying that one is before she had the staff, and one is while she’s holding it just adds an unneeded tag. There is already a tag for the staff itself.  
This isn’t like the question of ‘Princess Twilight Sparkle’ vs ‘Twilight Sparkle’, because there is a real physical and visible difference between the two. If the character has wings, then the ‘Princess Twilight Sparkle’ tag applies. If the character doesn’t, then that tag does no apply.
 
The ‘Princess Ember’ tag has gained well over a hundred images in a very short amount of time, while the ‘Dragon Lord Ember’ tag had only gained 20 or so images, so one is clearly more popular than the other. That aside, the character is listed in the credits as ‘Princess Ember’, and this is a character named in her debut episode, not a nameless character that had already gained a name from the fandom. IF the character shows up in another episode AND is listed in the credits with a different name, then would be the time for this discussion. But the character was clearly credited by DHX (and by extension Hasbro) as ‘Princess Ember’.

@TheDeinonychus  
just worth noting, tags aren’t added based on upload, they’re added on upload, but can also be changed, altered and removed after the upload, so the result of lesser tags of Dragon Lord does not mirror its popularity, nor would it matter if it did, there’d still be a discussion over it.

“Ember” should be the tag for the dragon. The G1 pony Ember can be renamed as “Ember (G1)” or “Ember (pony)” or similar. If someone new to derpi searches for “Ember” there’s a 90%+ chance that they’re intending to find the dragon.
 
Practicality outweighs “seniority” or whatever one might argue here. No offense to G1 fans, but right now dragon Ember needs and deserves the tag more.

@Softy  
I can definitely agree with that, though I’ve heard tell that having parentheses in tag names can cause problems.

@toxicitzi  
Popularity is not the sole reason the tag should be used, as I had already said. However the reasons that a tag is popular should be looked at, to see if they hold merit. True, a popular tag can be incorrect, but just because a tag is popular doesn’t mean it’s popularity should be ignored, only considered.
 
The tag is most likely popular already because of various reasons. From my perspective, those reasons seem to be, for one, it just sounds better. It goes in line with many other names used on the site and the show. ‘Princess Luna’, ‘Princess Celestia’, ‘Princess Twilight’, ‘Princess Ember’. It seems to fit in better. As I mentioned before, it’s how she was listed in the credits, and what she was called through the overwhelming majority of the episode.
 
These and other reasons likely contributed to that name being used by the majority of the people tagging images of her.

@Softy  
It would probably just be easier to leave the G1 pony’s tag as is, and ensure that this character’s (Princess Ember) tag is distinct enough from it to minimize confusion. G1 images are not as numerous on this site as images of G4 characters, true, but most people who are searching for images of ‘Princess Ember’ are more than likely to remember the ‘Princess’ part of the name.
 
The tag of ‘Ember’ for the G1 pony is already established. Better to settle on the tag for the G4 character in a way that doesn’t require altering any additional tags than the ones pertinent to the character in question.

@TheDeinonychus  
to an extent, most people would do that for the purposes of finding their stuff, which is what tags are there for and should be entirely about, it doesn’t mean popularity has much to do with it as much as the term gets confused with usability, or being more accessible as a term to think of.
 
dragon lord I would say probably holds more popularity in terms of naming convention, it’s a more striking and bold name after all, especially for a dragon character that you haven’t seen in like, what, 5 years now of the show’s history? but because of the nature of tags, it will get only mentioned in discussions, but that’s just how I see it and how many others may see it too.
 
either way that’s not the point, the point is that popularity will indeed cause attention to be gained from a tag, it always does even if unintentionally so, of course I didn’t mean all popular tags must be exterminated, I meant that popularity alone shouldn’t be a feature of tags, which obviously lends itself to go into a discussion and dissertation of the tag’s legitimacy, this is mostly done by moderators though and decided, it’s later that there may be appeals to talk about them, like the one here.  
anyway, we should get back on subject here, this last part was all mostly an explanation, not a discussion/debate.

@toxicitzi  
True, but you do have to take that popularity into consideration, even if a different tag may be ‘technically’ more correct in some cases. As an example.  
People typically search for ‘Pinkie Pie’ to find the pink pone, cause that’s what she’s most popularly known as. But if you were strictly worried about if a tag is technically correct, she’d be tagged under her full name of ‘Pinkamena Diane Pie’. But people wouldn’t search for her under that name, cause she’s usually not called that in the show. Making the tag ‘Pinkie Pie’ alias to ‘Pinkamena Diane Pie’ would be just an after the fact fix, effectively forcing the less popular tag in place of the more popular one, since there would be no other use for the ‘Pinkamena Diane Pie’ tag (not counting it’s use for Pinkie when she’s had her mental breakdown).
 
In this case, ‘Princess Ember’ is the overwhelmingly more popular tag, and there is little to no real distinction between ‘Princess Ember’ and ‘Dragon Lord Ember’. It would make far more sense to alias the less popular ‘Dragon Lord Ember’ tag to ‘Princess Ember’. It’s far more commonly used, more widely known, and is already on the vast majority of the images of the character in question.

@DragonWraith