OptimusPrimevil
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@Keith Mowz  
i think it’s the goal to ‘fix/make it better/more proper’ that got the artist’ goat more.
Wesley Foxx
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The Fluffiest
Anyone who’s ‘artistic vision’ can be compromised by someone making an altered copy of their work has no vision.
 
I’m perfectly fine with the mane six, and especially the extended cast, being portrayed as things other than white, as long as that portrayal actually fits their personality, or the artist is doing it to make them personally more relatable. Forced diversity makes me roll my eyes though I’m not going to rage about MUH HEADCANONS over it. It just makes me stare judgmentally at the artist and want to congratulate them for continuing to perpetuate the idea that race should be a dividing factor as something that matters rather than a non-issue once we stop treating it as a thing. We’re all one race; Human. Get over it. (I’m sure that triggers their otherkin sensibilities, though.)
OptimusPrimevil
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@Background Pony #ACB6  
so the comparison of zoo animals with tribal people (who i’m guessing were graded without any prior coaching/teaching beforehand) isn’t really fair in a sense…
 
now, zoo animals having a better grade than supposedly ‘educated’ people…now that’s a better comparison.
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@Dashu  
Not to mention not all Arabic people are Muslim. (So it’s odd to refer to them as such.) In fact, ironically according to some studies most American-Arabic people are christian.
Background Pony #A9E8
gonna assume those zoo animals were trained in some sort. and how do you accurately gauge the IQ of tribal humans?
 
Yes, and to the latter through things like memory tests and math which is a universal constant that all civilizations will eventually create identically (Hence why SETI looks for aliens using binary, the simplest of mathematical languages, as all intelligent live will develop their own form of binary at some point)  
To my recollection, the most intelligent animal in captivity was a chimp thought to have an IQ around 90 (Below average in Western nations) whereas the average IQ in the sub-Sahara (Not even a tribal area) is about 80. In the mid-2000s, the Japanese even did some testing with chimps against human adults in a memory game where the chimps won.  
Really we need to stop thinking of humans as a non-animal because it’s a disservice to both science and the rise of other sentient species on this planet. As you can tell I’m extremely pro-animal rights, although I’m not one of those silly vegans that think themselves outside the cycle of life and death.
Kanrabat
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He’s BAAAAAAAAAACK!
OptimusPrimevil
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There are zoo animals with higher recorded IQs than some tribal humans. Let that sink in for a minute.
 
gonna assume those zoo animals were trained in some sort. and how do you accurately gauge the IQ of tribal humans?
Background Pony #A9E8
a load of uninformed nonsense
 
Do you even neanderthal?  
Do you even heidelbergensis?  
Do you even denisovan?
 
You have a magical way of thinking where only one hominid existed on Earth at once, which doesn’t make any sense considering how every other species on Earth functions. Species don’t disappear one at a time as they are replaced by their evolutionary descendants. That’s not how evolution works.
 
Technically speaking there are probably more than 10 “races” cause by at least 4 actual species intermingling with homo sapiens - neanderthals in Northwest Europe, heidelbergensis in South Africa, and denisovans in Northeast Asia and Australia. Furthermore peoples like the San are completely unrelated to modern Africans, and if you believe Chinese scientists Asians are descended from another offshoot of Homo Erectus completely.
 
Secondly, Jews cannot be a culture AND a religion AND an ethnicity. A religion is a religion, but can be affected by local cultures, and while ethnicities can make up a large part of a culture or religion they are not representative of them. You’re basically making an argument that white supremacists make in regards to “white” culture, only about Jews.An atheist with a Jewish family is not a Jew because he is an atheist. An atheist with an Ashkenazi family is still an atheist because the Ashkenazis are Ashkenazis and not Jews. It’s like claiming an Italian is Catholic because of their association, but really you’ve got the correlations inversed. A Jew is a person who is a part of the Jewish religion, not anything else. What you are implying is incredibly racist.
 
Thirdly the differences between the races are not comparatively small when some South African populations are closer to bonobos than other human populations, most likely due to the presence of residual heidelbergensis genes in their population. This is not to say that their upper limits of personal development is stunted by their genetics, but this is the same kind of difference between a bonobo and a regular chimpanzee. The real problem here is the fact we consider humans so much above animals when really we aren’t nearly as intelligent as we think we are. There are zoo animals with higher recorded IQs than some tribal humans. Let that sink in for a minute.
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@Dashu  
*I see Muslim woman and hijab pretty much daily
 
Jesus, why do I keep making these typos, that completely change the intended meaning?
OptimusPrimevil
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@Ferrotter  
if you factor in adam and eve, we are all inbred.
OptimusPrimevil
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@Dashu  
sadly, stereotypes = easier identification  
as a test, which one is the mexican one?  
full  
full  
full
Ferrotter
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@Ridley Wolf  
No, you were right. She’s Caucasian. And Jewish. The two aren’t mutually exclusive; most Jews (including all Ashkenazi, all Sephardim, and all Mizrahi) are Caucasian. There’s also a small Ethiopian group of Jews who are Negro. When most people say Jewish, they actually mean Ashkenazi, which are the European Jews whose ancestral language is Yiddish. By population, most Jews are Ashkenazi, which is why most everyone thinks of Ashkenazi when they think of Jews. (Sephardim are Spanish Jews whose ancestral language is Ladino, a variety of Spanish similar to how Yiddish is a variety of German. They spread at the end of the Inquisition, when Jews were required to leave Spain proper, but are not that numerous. Mizrahi are the Jewish populations who stayed in the Middle East, and mostly speak Arabic today.)
 
There are only three races: Caucasians, Asians, and Negroes. Some argue that Australian Aborigines are a fourth, and/or Native Americans are a fifth. Genetic studies probably support both of those additions. Jewish is an ethnicity, not a race. Confusing the issue, unlike any other ethnicity, Jewish is also a culture, and a religion. (And further confusing it, the US Government mangles “race” and “ethnicity” on the census because there aren’t actually words for the properties wanted to measure. In Governmentese, the number of races changes; right now they lump Alaskan and Native American together, even though the former might be Asian and the latter might also be Asian or more solidly might be their own race; are other races like Pacific Islander, which is really Asian, and even a space for write-ins. And ethnicity in Governmentese just means Hispanic or non-Hispanic.) The true root cause is that race is kind of an artificial construct. Populations have historically inter-bred, and the differences between them are comparatively small. Even populations that have been separated from other human populations as long as the Australian Aborigines are only 44,000 years apart. And all of humanity are a deeply inbred bunch of apes, descended from roughly six people who just barely managed to keep the species from going extinct about 140,000 years ago. A typical family of chimpanzees has more ancestors than the entire human species.
 
But because Jewish is an ethnicity, a culture, and a religion, it’s possible to be Jewish in one to three ways. If you (or an ancestor) converted to the Jewish faith, but live the Thai culture otherwise, and are Asian, you’re Jewish, but only in terms of your faith. If you’re a Hassidic Jew in Monsey, NY, or a typical Mizrahi Jew in Iran or Sephardic Jew in Argentina, you’re Jewish all three ways. But there are also a lot of Jewish atheists who don’t believe in the Jewish religion, but do celebrate Jewish holidays and food traditions because of their historical and family importance. And also assimilated Jews who don’t identify with or pass down their ancestral history, have converted to the dominant religion in their homeland, and are Jewish only because their ancestry supposedly traces back to the tribes of Israel and therefore are of the Jewish ethnicity. And you can sometimes see just the culture in the children or grandchildren of mixed-faith marriages; they identify as Jewish and celebrate Jewish holidays, but don’t actually believe in the Torah or attend a Synagogue, and have little or no Jewish ancestry. Not to mention adoptees raised Jewish but who never converted to the religion.
Viscera
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@Beau Skunky  
Yeah, that’s a problem I have with this “muslimizations”. Somehow, they always wear stereotypical Muslim clothes. Don’t know about you, but I see Muslim woman and hijab pretty much daily. And younger ones in these traditional clothes (don’t know what they’re called) nearly never.
 
It’s like they aren’t aware that there are Muslim women (particularly in Western countries) who don’t wear these clothes all the time. Or they just need a shorthand to show that the character is Muslim. Both of which have their issues.
Background Pony #36C3
Nailed it once again.
Shaky
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Ridley Wolf
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@Background Pony #6E74  
True, but I’m not sure that Jewish would be considered an ethnicity. Hell, I’ve met Asian Jews.
 
Eh, I shoulda just said “white.”
Background Pony #A9E8
“@Background Pony #6E74”  
you’re not looking for a discussion
 
That’s funny, considering you’re the one who has already drawn a conclusion about this.  
Triggered tumblrs much?
OptimusPrimevil
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@Ridley Wolf  
like i said, it depends on how far are you in the artist heirarchy if people will deem your reaction to other people messing with your stuff as ‘crybabyism’ or ‘messing with his artistic vision’).
 
personally i think it’s the editting to make it ‘better’ that stings for some artists more than outright stealing.
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@Ridley Wolf  
lol I guess it is a li’l flattering, but still a li’l odd. I’m not even a good artist really.
 
The pic was of Rouge the bat hugging Tails, (basically a humorous “marshmallow hell” gag, so Tails wasn’t even enjoying it) and I guess some who saw it, wish they were in Tails’ position. lol
Background Pony #719C
@Cyborg_pony  
Considering that every person I’ve ever seen make that argument has claimed that all humanized ponies (sometimes excepting Sapphire Shores) should be Caucasian, I’ll take that as a yes.
 
@Background Pony #ACB6  
Asking why I pose a question while at the same time editing out the very reason I gave makes me think you’re not looking for a discussion. The assumptions you make regarding the motivations of artists doing humanizations pretty much tell me all I need to know, anyway.
 
@Ridley Wolf  
Twilight Sparkle’s voice actress is Jewish, actually.
 
@Background Pony #ACB6  
And if someone says they’re “fixing” or “correcting” your work, that’s obviously done without malice, right?
Ridley Wolf
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@Beau Skunky  
I’m envious.  
I wish people liked my stuff enough to use it without permission.
Beau Skunky
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@Ridley Wolf  
Yeah, it’d be nice if people asked permission first.
 
Y’know, one time I found an old fanart piece of mine on a porn site. (Ironically, there wasn’t anything “pornographic” about said picture. I don’t do that kinda thing.)  
I didn’t get upset, I just thought it was funny. (And maybe a li’l creepy. lol)
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@OptimusPrimevil  
That’s a difficult one.  
In some ways, I think it’s kind of ridiculous that people complain about having their creation messed with when they themselves are drawing pictures of copyrighted characters.
 
In other ways, I can understand the problem. If you’re an artist known for safe and cutesy pictures, you probably wouldn’t want a bunch of explicit edits popping up.
 
I think people should just learn to ask first, or at the very least stop when and if they’re asked to.  
It’s just common courtesy.
Background Pony #A9E8
@Background Pony #ACB6
Yeah, while it’s wrong for people to “recolor/whitewash/edit” their work…
 
As an artist myself I think it’s actually complimentary for someone to edit your work without malice, whether it’s changing skin tones or removing Twilight’s wings or something stupid like that.  
Not only does it mean that someone LIKES your work, it means they like it enough to modify it into another form they like even more. People don’t waste their time like that if they don’t genuinely like you.