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Shoulda read more TVTropes.
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You know what would have been really cool? If Discord did start to go along with Tirek, but ultimately came to realize that he just didn’t enjoy making others suffer like he used to, and promptly told Tirek he could stuff it.
That would have been some real character development, not this “I regret my actions because Tirek betrayed me (WHAT A TWIST!) and now I’m sad,” stuff.
But did it swallow?
I think Discord had a bit of a flawed conception of friendship to begin with. As best as i can justify his actions, Discord has a desire for friendship but also still had a desire for power. He knew that with Fluttershy, he couldn’t have both, even though she’s an excellent friend. My guess would be that with Tirek, he thinks that he can both gain power and at least have some sort of friendship going. His limited knowledge of friendship was probably what kept him from seeing that people who aim for world domination don’t make the best friends. Although he has an excellent understanding of the Elements themselves, he didn’t understand how those elements, contributed to the overall friendship, which was why he had trouble understanding the significance of Twilight’s element until the end of the episode.
Still a pretty weak justification for his actions and naivete but that’s as best as I can figure out for now. I liked some parts of the way he was handled in the episode, but Discord is easily my favorite non-mane 6 character and I would have appreciated him having a little more explanation, complexity and character development than he had.
I think I would have been okay with it if Discord had simply said, “Well, it seemed like the chaotic thing to do at the time.” Instead, he rambled on about Tirek “offering” him something that friendship could not. So what, Discord was trying to use rationale in his betrayal? One of the most obvious logical flaws you can immediately see is the implication that Discord needed Tirek’s help for anything at all. Discord already had the ability to act as he pleased with impunity, meaning Tirek could offer Discord literally nothing that he couldn’t acquire on his own. Less than nothing in fact, because Tirek can’t dole out Flutterhugs.
And yeah, that ending. It was so fast, my immediate words after seeing the rainbow blast was “Wait, that’s it?” I mean dang, Tirek was such a tough nut to crack, and then all of a sudden he crumbles in two seconds. Of course it has been done that way several times before, but that just means that it’s really old hat now. Seriously, we get it, weaponized friendship beats everything. But that doesn’t mean you can’t make it a good spectacle!
Actually I did like the idea of Discord going back to the dark side– I enjoy characters that are morally ambiguous, and Discord has a lot of potential in that area, but the “join me” speech was a little on the weak side, true. His way back to the side of good was more of the problem for me, I kinda wish it had been handled differently than it was. I would have been more interesting if after Twilight won his friendship, he helped them win in a more direct way than just providing a key, like joining the final battle or something. And, oh man, that would have been so cool if Discord was just playing along the entire time. Even though I did enjoy seeing him show some remorse for what he did to Fluttershy, it would have been cool.
I had no problem with it being a Twilight-centric episode either, since it was her key episode. But god, at least have the rest of them do something. Like, literally anything more interesting than what happened. I mean, we got a kickass fight scene with Twilight, but if they had made it half as long and used the rest of the time to have a kickass fight scene with the rest of them using rainbow power against him, I would have enjoyed that more. As it was, the rainbow power abilities don’t seem to be any more exciting than slightly upgraded elements of harmony. Point and click at the bad guy and poof he’s gone.
Plus, it was a great opportunity to see Discord do something really great for the right side, but instead he got idiot balled with a nice dose of genre blindness.
Add to that the fact that the mane six basically got to be nothing but a gaggle of damsels in distress, and you end up with a two-parter that had plenty going for it (epic animation, fantastic villain, etc.), that just didn’t come off as believable or enjoyable.
I literally wanted to yell out loud at the insanity of anyone being swayed by Tirek’s pitifully weak “join the dark side” speech. It was so lacking in credibility that many fans have come up with crack theories saying that Discord planned everything from the beginning, and only pretended to be surprised at Tirek’s betrayal. It would have been far easier to swallow if something like that were true.
I can see what you mean. There were some things I really liked about it and some things I didn’t like so much. I actually liked a lot of the plot, at least the beginning was pretty well written.
For me, it was more that Twilight Sparkle didn’t really have to learn anything new about friendship to accomplish what she did. I feel like in each of the key episodes, a member of the Mane 6 failed/did something morally questionable that led to character development of some sort. It was kind of cool seeing Rarity realize how much she had hurt her friends, or Fluttershy exercise harsh kindness. I thought Discord’s development was better done that Twilight’s, to be honest.
I suppose some will hate me for saying that, since the general reaction to this episode seems to be pretty positive. I just wanted to see her fail utterly and totally at something important, and get some good development from seeing her fix it.
Fluttershy thought they were truly friends, and they were in a sense. Discord just doesn’t, or didn’t rather, understand what that means. Nor did he understand trust and betrayal. He just has this basic idea of friendship and loyalty but he had no real experience with it all.
I admit the original redemption episode for Discord felt lacking, but after this finale I’m kind of glad it did. He liked having a friend who didn’t hate him in Fluttershy. This new thing he never had before, so it plants this seed in his mind about it. Then this finale rolls around and Discord thinks he can have a better friend in Tirek. Things turn out like shit for him and he realizes all the crazy antics in the world don’t matter any more without someone he cares about to enjoy it with.
So by itself the original friendship episode was a bit one sided, but not really, and not as simple to explain as that. After the finale it’s completely mutual now even if the ponies are disappointed in Discord. They’re still his friends.
I get that, it’s just the whole Fluttershy being friends with Discord never quite worked for me. Thus, this little moment didn’t pay off for me since the whole basis never worked. I was just making a silly comment in the beginning, ah well. :P
Same here, it’s an amazing episode. :)
Thanks for the link! I saved the image, because that’s a really good reference.
Yeah. I like the idea that Discord didn’t plan it that way right from the start, but he actually learned something about friendship. That’s really cool, to me. I was never really sold on the idea of Discord actually being real friends to anyone, and in a way, I’m glad to know my suspicions were right. After the finale, it feels like Discord is actually genuine about how he feels, and it seems the feeling is finally mutual.
God I love this episode. :)
But if I did that then there wouldn’t be the original trilogy that these celestia shaken bad prequels are based on.
I had a conversation earlier about this too, I don’t think he’s necessarily just a bad guy, he’s chaotic by nature, after the events of the finale I think he’s leaning more towards good than ever, whereas before you could say he was leaning more the evil way, a lot of the time anyway
Instead of filling up this entire thread, I’ll just leave a link to the conversation I mentioned here if you want to take a look - http://puu.sh/8JYvC.png
Agreed though, he’s a great character.
A friend of mine had a rather interesting idea. He pointed out the keys to Twilight and her friends, who seemed lost about what to do. Would they have known without his help? Would Equestria be doomed? Did Discord have a keen understanding of how this worked? Did he intentionally betray Twilight and her friends, just so he could give her a meaningful key? My friend was wondering if Discord was a kind of Severus Snape of this world. Is he really a bad guy?
I won’t lie. I love the idea of never being exactly sure what Discord is playing at.
Huh? The point of this scene was to foreshadow Discord getting betrayed and to highlight Discord’s naivete in understanding how trust and loyalty works. The point was to give Discord a character arc for the season as he unthinkably betrays someones trust only to then experience the same feeling himself.
There were plenty of things to complain about in this episode (the overly long and totally out of place Super Saiyan fight for one) but this exchange wasn’t one of them.
It can, it just requires a different approach. A moment like this just didn’t have much going for it when the setup was lackluster. Some of my favorite episodes have been basically filler, it all depends on what kind of setup and payoff they are going for.
Why? Can’t an episode be enjoyable in its own right without contributing to an overarching plot?