@PrisonedMuffin
One thing about being an atheist, in some ways I sincerely hope I’m wrong. It’s almost like a win win. If I’m right awesome. If I’m wrong (and this god is truly omnibenevolent and righteous) then even better, heaven. (if hell even exists then I wouldn’t even want to pretend to like that god)
I don’t need a lesson in the uses of certain words. What I was getting at was you mannerisms. You originally came out like a firestorm seeming to paint anyway of a theological nature as inherently stupid, while using the term ignorant.
You’ve since corrected that, and I taken note of it. Now, do refrain from lecturing me on the difference as it is neither here nor there.
@Techy Pony
I’m afraid of death because of its uncertainty. I hope that there’s a heaven that you go to because you were a good person. I hope that if Heaven exists and I go to it I see more than just Christians or Muslims and so on. Also, I don’t think my religion affects my morals. Most of the good things I do in life are because a want to be a good person, not just because that’s what Jesus would want me to. I’ve even been told in church that if you’re only gonna do good things (like serving the poor) just because God wants you to or that you could go to Heaven, and not because you’re doing it out if your good heart, then don’t even bother.
But what do I know? I’m just a 17-year-old agnostic Christian.
@PrisonedMuffin
Believe me, unless someone comes to a conclusion on their own they’re not going to believe it. I could influence you but it won’t just flip your beliefs.
@Zincy
Well often very ignorant people are that way because they’re just plain stupid. Being stupid can easily make you ignorant, but being ignorant doesn’t necessarily make you stupid. I could go through and explain in each case why I used one word or the other but I do know when I mean one or the other. (even if I don’t explain in detail why, that’d take more work than I care to put in a 11:30 pm)
@PrisonedMuffin
It can be self harm if not harm to others. Harm to people can be incredibly indirect and come from the actions of many not just of the few. You could be helping propagate harm but not be a direct cause. This is all hypothetical of course.
Religion obviously effects morals, if it gives you a bad one you will harm people. (any you wouldn’t know because you think it’s right) Religion also effects politics which can have harm in so many ways. If it causes lack of free thinking that’s harmful. If it makes you fear what’ll happen after you die or fear life in general because of a vengeful god that’s incredibly harmful.
I’m just listing some potentials. You’re 17 you’re still quite malleable so do yourself a favor and question everything. How you come to a conclusion can be far more valuable then the conclusion, whether it be right or wrong.
“Stupid and ignorant are very different, so don’t use them as one and the same.”
Your aggressiveness early seemed to indicate that it was you who didn’t make that distinction. However, you’ve altered that perception throughout this discussion so I believe that is not longer relevant.
@Kryptid
It would be kinda hard to be an atheist in Equestria. The closet to an atheist there would be in a place like that would be a pony or griffin or dragon who don’t believe that Celestia and Luna could raise or lower the sun and moon.
Interesting little adventure in the comments. I’m a Christian, but I’m well aware that one should not believe in something JUST because that’s what they were taught as a child. Gotta have a more objective reason for it.
I’d like to note that just because Twilight is talking with Dawkins doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s an atheist or that they are even discussing religion itself.
@Techy Pony
And I don’t want you to pry my beliefs from me. I’d rather find them on my own. I wanna come to a conclusion on my own. I’m not forced to believe what I believe. I don’t know what I believe. Maybe I’ll truly accept Jesus when I’m older. Maybe I’ll become an atheist and be secure with it. Maybe I’ll become a Buddhist. I don’t know what will happen to me in the future.
@Zincy
Stupid and ignorant are very different, so don’t use them as one and the same. I’d say that yes, everyone is ignorance and the strive for knowledge helps get rid of some of that ignorance. Some may say “ignorant to some things” where as I’ll just say “ignorant to more or different things”.
Problem is on the surface I can’t call a theist ignorant because we don’t know the truth and thus we don’t know if it’s the theist (or which religion) or atheist who is right. If one’s conclusions about a religion come from ignorance then yes I’d call them ignorant.
@Techy Pony
But I don’t harm anyone with my beliefs. I don’t consider myself. I mean, I’m 17. I’m almost an adult. I haven’t found my purpose or myself in life yet.
@PrisonedMuffin You make me feel like a bad person because of my religious beliefs.
I’m truly sorry, but I fell I’m right (or I wouldn’t believe what I do) and as such feel a moral responsibility to destroy (what I think) is ignorance. I often feel terrible about trying to pry someone’s desired believes from them, but allowing them to keep them (in my mind) can seem just as mean.
Am I a bad person? Does being an atheist make me a better person? Am I stupid? Would being an atheist make me smarter?
I don’t know you well enough but I’ll say no. No. I don’t know. No.
Yes, everyone is ignorant of something. I’ll put money on the fact that you’re ignorant to Hamilton’s Rules of Inclusive Fitness, but that doesn’t make you “ignorant”.
I’m asking if, because of that single illogical aspect of me, does that make me an “ignorant” person. Or, for lack of a better term “stupid”.
@Zincy
So you’re saying because you’re smart and have made great achievements means you can’t be wrong about something? An idot can be right on a wild guess and a genius wrong. We’re probably all wrong about many things, I could be wrong in saying there’s no god, you could be wrong in your god of choice, we could both be wrong and it could be a god abandoned thousands of years ago. It’s literally impossible to assess the possibilities in this case.
So yes there’s no reason you can’t be ignorant to the truth despite your achievements.
@Techy Pony
No one really knows. We just come to conclusions. We won’t know till we die. And if we die and then that’s it, then I guess we’ll never know.
@Zincy
Well the problem can’t be fixed if nothing is done. We’ve got to start somewhere with one of the causes. (whether or not we agree on the causes doesn’t matter to that point)
@Techy Pony
You make me feel like a bad person because of my religious beliefs. Am I a bad person? Does being an atheist make me a better person? Am I stupid? Would being an atheist make me smarter?
Take me for example. I’m a collegiate scholar. I’ve got an IQ of nearly 150, I’m double majoring in psychiatry and philosophy. I go to one of the hardest colleges in VA. I know the theory of evolution like the back of my hand and champion it every way possible. And on top of all this, I have a shrine to the Celtic Goddess Danu in my art room.
Does that one thing make me ignorant in spite of my achievements?
@PrisonedMuffin
No a fight, it’s an argument. As I said I make judgments on people on a case to case basis. I may hat your beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I think there’s anything wrong with you. Sure some good things come from theism, but the things you listed can just as easily come from a group of atheists having fun so it’s really not a point for theism.
