AJ didn´t learn anything!

“Dear Princess Celestia, I didn’t learn anything!”

@TexasUberAlles  
Okay, Lazy Eye was probably not the right words.  
I meant to say “Eye clearly going through the line that should be her eyelid”

@Gatito  
I don’t think it’s a lazy eye; her left iris and pupil are barely visible at first, but after AJ prances through they’re visible all the way around. She’s just lookin’ forward instead of to her right.

So did anyone notice Granny Smith’s lazy eye before Applejack walked past?

@The Smiling Pony  

13932 words. Being generous to remove things like “reply” and whatnot, 13500.
 
That is a lot.

@Dylanius  
Jeebus wept, man, you are not kidding. Four entire maximum-character-limit posts worth of flailing temper tantrum are not the product of a sane adult mind.

@Dylanius
 
>Every single post in this thread

@JetClam  

@Maya
 
I feel ya, mate… *hugs supportingly*

@JetClam
 
“I ask… horse-related activity.”
 
Wait, wait, wait… you’re… actually doing this… at work.
 
While someone is paying you… to do something else…
 
That is… immensely irresponsible, mate. I mean, whenever I respond to your bullshit, it’s always in my own free time – usually when I’m in a skype conversation with several of my mates, and would likely be doing little else otherwise. But, you are actually taking money from someone, in exchange for you providing them with your time and effort… and then you proceed to dick about, instead choosing to make an ass out of yourself on an image booru?
 
That… that is the epitome of pathetic, mate. That is just dishonest, slimy, and just… just low.
 
“How… actually works.”
 
Nothing – I don’t cheat people out of wages by claiming that I’m working hours that I’m actually not.
 
Also, are you honestly suggesting that current economic theory and the reality of world-wide economics are somehow in conflict? If so, then allow me to hearken back to what I was saying earlier - you are the one who doesn’t know a thing about history.
 
“Unlike you, I don’t let rambling idiocy interfere with my responsibilities.”
 
From everything you’ve just said, mate, it’s pretty clear that you do. I don’t let this eat into my studies; you, however, allow it to eat into your work schedule. That is simply egregious.
 
“You’re screaming… getting paid for it.”
 
And this is even more egregious. Not only are you screwing over your employer and tricking them into propping you up while you bicker, like a juvenile, with people who know far more than you… but you’re flaunting it, actually sinking so low as to turn it into a contest over “who’s laughing last”. Right, because who cares about the guys who hired you, who gave you the opportunity you have now, and who you promised productivity to in exchange? So long as you’re making money, fuck everyone else, am I right?
 
Every time I have spoken negatively of you, it has been to make a criticism – it has universally been to point out a flaw, either in your reasoning or in your character, that pertained to the string of conversation at hand, with the relevant arguments either already made, or following in its wake. You, on the other hand, have never brought anything to the table but stale, meaningless name-calling, the kind that is so cliché and generic that it’s lost all trace of meaning; “little one” is a prime example, along with other such jeering that I’d expect to hear in a freaking schoolyard.
 
And, after aaaaaall this, you claim that I’M the one who needs validation. While you’re throwing one of the biggest e-tantrums I’ve ever seen, possibly ACTUALLY laughing – physically – at your screen… and doing it in a PUBLIC PLACE.
 
Truly… truly… sad.
 
“To be fair, he is pretty stupid.”
 
Clever, mate. Really. *clap clap*
 
“I’m… we count ’em.””
 
If you had actually bothered to read the post he’s referring to, you actually WOULD know what he was on about. Long story short, I used basic arithmetic to prove that, even at a 30% cut, the Apples still would have been easily able to keep their farm afloat. Thus, the deal was not “untenable”, as you claimed.
 
“Man… final word on it.”
 
It still diluted the outcome of the competition regardless.
 
“Quality is… run out for it.”
 
If that was the case, then why wasn’t a foul called at any point when they were clearly sucking up entire trees? Why was no specific quality standard set before the competition began? Why didn’t they have any tasters, to arbitrate if need be? And last but not least, where, exactly, is the threshold crossed between cider and non-cider, for the purposes of that contest? Once again, you are projecting your arbitrary standards onto the competition and judging it from that angle – rather than judging it from the rules that were actually set in place.
 
They by no means cheated – which is why they won. They were run out after the fact – and at this point, rightfully so (… kinda), because the product they were selling was shit – but, not only was the competition already rendered utterly meaningless due to the rest of the Mane 6’s intervention (squeal about how “they allowed” all you want – the fact remains that the Apple family’s output capacity was no longer properly represented (as proven REPEATEDLY throughout the course of this discussion)), but the performance displayed by the SSCS6K could still represent the “proper” cider output of that one machine, if the apples were pre-bucked… which is by no means unfeasible, and, even if it weren’t, the bottom line is that the brothers’ machine was able to outperform the Apple family, as they would be, on any typical day of farmwork. The brothers being run out and the results of the contest were separate matters entirely.
 
Y’know, I’ve met a lot of overall detestable people in my day, but of all the scumbags I have personally consorted with? You just might take the cake. The sheer amount of stupidity, arrogance, bitterness, zealotry, self-righteousness, obsession with incoherent ranting, and classic man-child petulance, all blended together with an utter lack of humility, humor, insight, creativity, wit, brevity, self-awareness, talent, knowledge, honesty, and even basic ability to reason into the putrid concoction that is the guy who spends his work-days arguing with someone who is both brighter and more knowledgeable than him in every way, instead of actually working like he’s supposed to, is something that I can barely even begin to stomach. Seriously, you might just be up there with Purple Tinker and PinkiePony…
 
… okay, maybe that’s going a bit too far.
 
Still, pretty much all of my arguments have been pretty decisively proven correct by now; seriously, you’ve been so cohesively thrashed, there’s absolutely nothing left you can even do at this point but throw even more tantrums, ignore even more points, hide behind even more school-yard insults and empty platitudes. Now, you’ve been doing plenty of that already, but by now I think we’ve reached a point where you can’t even cycle through your bullshit in a semi-fresh way; in other words, I think my work is done here.
 
Reply to this if you want, but even my patience has its limit, and I just can’t be fucked flipping through all the same old tired diatribes and non-sensical blatherings anymore. Since I won’t be coming back here anymore, all that your replying will do is prove what I was saying before, about your desperation for validation from others; now that you know I won’t read it, why else would you respond at this point, unless it was in a last-ditch effort to save face and make yourself look like hot shit? Even then, though, I really don’t think you’ll be able to salvage your oh-so precious image in their eyes; everybody here can see what a feeble wreck your arguments are, and how much of a piece of shit the guy who made them is.
 
My recommendation? Don’t even bother; spare everyone here the aggravation of listening to any more of your spluttering.
 
 
JetClam, signing out.

@JetClam
 
“The… Free Market spoke.”
 
Yes, you moron – that’s what I’ve been saying this entire time. It was their *initial* actions, as well as those during the contest itself, that I – and everyone else here, so far as I can remember – were defending. Once again, I have to ask where exactly you were going with this.At the END, Flim and Flam made several poor decisions, and their business venture failed as a consequence. You think I was disagreeing with this!? Have you just been ASLEEP for the past few posts?
 
I’d not blame you, seeing as how you have the attention span of an add-ridden flea, but still…
 
“Logorrheic  
rambling bullshit  
…  
[makes a post which is literally 1386 words and 8012 characters]  
ahahaha”
 
The difference between your posts and mine is that mine actually have substance. I only use as many words as I need to get my point across – you intentionally hide behind run-on diatribes and incoherent, disjointed rants to create the illusion that you’re saying more than you actually are.
 
Man, no matter how many times you try and call hypocrisy, it just never seems to work, does it! That must be disheartening – good thing your skull is as thick as it is empty, otherwise, you might actually learn from your mistakes.
 
 
“As long as… actual practice”
 
Ahh, there’s that logorhhea we’ve all come to know and love.
 
First of all – oh, I’m by no means the world’s foremost expert; after all, if I already knew everything, I wouldn’t exactly be going to school for it, now would I? However, at the least I know enough to recognize what the difference is between a business’s idealized output capacity, and it’s_actual_ output capacity.
 
Unlike some people. whistles innocently
 
Secondly, over the course of this debate, I’ve shown a very intimate familiarity with the history of economics from the early 1900s onwards without even trying to. And, wow, does my familiarity go so much further back than that. The Economic effects of the Civil War, Jim Crow laws, and the Reconstruction Era? Covered it. Second Industrial Revolution? Covered it. Imperialism by European states throughout the Orient and Africa? Covered it. The Panic of 1907? Covered it (Thank you kindly, J.P. Morgan.) The economic ravaging suffered by Germany in the aftermath of WWI, and the Treaty of Versailles? Covered it. The Roaring Twenties? Covered it. The Great Depression, and all of its various causes and intensifiers – including the Dust Bowl, protectionism in foreign markets, overexpansion of credit, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, Agricultural Adjustment Act, Federal Farm Loan Act, VAST abuse of Fiscal policy by Wilson, Hoover and Roosevelt, and WWII? Covered it. The other, world-wide Economic effects of WWII? Covered it. The failings of Planned Economies, and the resultant ravaging of the nations behind the iron curtain and the fall of the Soviet Union? Covered it. The Cold War? Covered it. And last but not least, the Clinton Administration’s crusade to make all Americans homeowners by means of over-expanding credit through monetary policy directly resulting in the housing bubble and real estate crash of the mid-late 2000s? Covered it.
 
There’s no getting around it, mate - I am extremely familiar with modern Western history and the application of economics principles. I know my shit - no matter how large a wall of text you build in the ravenous assertion that I don’t.
 
“— how… whiny tone of voice?”
 
… you’re… specifically hearing… a tone of… voice?
 
… well, there are two conclusions I can draw from that statement – one, you’re actually fucking nuts and have begun having auditory hallucinations, or two – and what I find to be the far more likely conclusion – you’re constructing the aforementioned voice in your own mind, and then attributing it to my words, intentionally pretending it to be as whiny as possible, all so that you can have something to put down and feel superior to in yet another desperate effort to save your own ego, now that it’s been definitively shown for a while now that the feat of actually refuting any of the points I’ve raised has proven to be beyond your inept, fumbling grasp.
 
Now to answer your questions. 1. Time; well, I am a pretty fast typer, so not more than a few hours total for each post I’ve made so far? 2. Effort; well, you’re a bumbling, incompetent moron who couldn’t put up a decent argument if his life depended on it… so, really, not much effort at all.
 
Besides, I’m off from college this week due to health complications. Might as well spend that time cementing my understanding of economics concepts; and, well, I might as well humiliate an arrogant, self-absorbed, economic-illiterate manchild like yourself while I’m at it. Think of it as exercises for the brain (although in your case, more like tentative warm-ups after returning to the track following a severe case of shin-splints, if we’re using a comparable difficulty) – particularly the part that handles rhetoric.
 
Lastly – oh, I’m not trying to sound smarter than anyone else (unlike a certain intellectually-impotent, zealotry-consumed cretin who couldn’t stop falling back on the various defense mechanisms I keep pointing out if he was even able to register their existence) – I’ve always said that if someone is smarter than another, then that fact should stand on its own. Hell, I’ve not built myself up once in this entire discussion, unless I needed to clarify the extent of my competence in wake of one of your ineffectual character-assassination attempts. Oh, no – my academic achievements, IQ, proficiency testing results, near universal praise from various instructors and acquaintances I’ve had over the several years I’ve been in college, and my thrashing you in this debate right here, all speaks for itself.
 
(cont)

@JetClam
 
“Applebuck Season… not standard.”
 
Second line of the episode: Big McIntosh: Eeyup. Too big for you to handle on your own.
 
Eighth line, before AJ’s declaration that she would go it alone: “Big McIntosh: But still only one pony, and one pony plus hundreds o’ apple trees just doesn’t add up to…”
 
>But still only one pony,
 
>only one pony,
 

 
Why would Big Mac have expressed worry about her not being able to do it “on her own”, if she wasn’t initially on her own?
 
The episode didn’t show a normal day at the orchards, but by means of contrast it established what the actual standard was pretty clearly – Applejack, PLUS Big Macintosh… and that’s it. No additional workers, nothing but the members of the family who are fit to work.
 
… all of which is *still* irrelevant as to how many ponies are involved in the process of turning those apples into cider. Even if, in some other universe, you were right about them hiring additional labor for the harvest, SSCS6K CLEARLY showed that no one helped the family to actually *make the cider*, because nopony else was there. In short, not only are your bleatings – once again – wrong, but they are – once again – irrelevant.
 
Oh, by the way – that’s not coining a phrase. If anything, that’s repurposing a phrase that *I* coined… in a way that was then proven to not hold water.
 
And lastly, way to continue the TexasUberAlles tradition of ignoring points; where’s your explanation for why the Apples didn’t hire any of the ponies waiting in line, huh?
 
“All of… it to be?””
 
Still too witless to come up with your own phrases, eh? Oh, and another case of non-sequitur quoting – you and it seem to go hand in hand, I must say.
 
As to your question: actually, it’s because they aren’t employees on the Apple farm. They’ve only ever helped out in extreme circumstances. On a typical day, they will not be present to help in the harvesting – nor will the rest of Ponyville. As such, they will only harvest at the rate that the 2-4 family members will allow them to. Thus, it is THIS value which must be compared to the output of the SSCS6K.
 
Ya see, the thing is, I’ve already said all of this, repeatedly. I’ve actually supported my arguments – unlike you – so to claim that I’m positing these statements “because I want it to be [true]” is not at all comparable.
 
toward …. stubbornness”;
 
You don’t seem to comprehend the fact that we’re not talking about the hypothetical capacity of the farm, in a perfect world, under different circumstances; we are talking about the actual output of the farm, as it is, under the cold, hard, facts of the situation.
 
Riddle me this: what is it, exactly, that is setting the cap for how much cider the Apple Family’s operation can squeeze out? Is it their pride, making them think too highly of themselves to put in a little elbow grease? Of course not! The factor that is setting the cap is that there are not enough ponies lending a hoof to make that cider. Thus, *labor is the limiting factor.* Whatever is causing labor to be a limiting factor, is irrelevant; whether it’s because there aren’t enough ponies to hire, or because the Apples are too stubborn to hire them, is irrelevant. The simple, inescapable reality – the bottom line – Is that they can not producing as much cider as they could, because they don’t have the optimum number of employees to help them out.
 
Claiming that you can factor labor that will never be used into the output capacity of Sweet Apple Acres (not to mention the cider-making process thereof) is like claiming that you can factor the effect of steroids, or cybernetic enhancement, into the performance capacity of an athlete… who refuses to use either of them.
 
 
Oh, and by the way – there’s no labor in Ponyville that was available to the Apples, that wouldn’t have been available to the Flim-Flam brothers. So, if you’re going to consider them to be a boon to the Apple family’s productivity, you have to give the same treatment to the brothers as well – in other words, they support both equally, and can be disregarded for the purposes of this comparison.
 
All in all, pointless objection that danced around the issue I raised entirely… next.
 
“you never… their output.”
 
Projecting your infantile conduct onto others, hmm? …just another day at the office.
 
First of all – yes, I HAVE countered that argument… in the very comment you were responding to, actually. The exact quote is as follows:
 
”Where exactly are you going with this? Whether the Apples lacked the labor because of their pride, or because of a shortage in the labor pool, has no standing to the argument… at all. Make all the excuses you want – the fact remains that they can’t, and won’t, be able to match the Brothers’ cider output, given that the brothers had the same number of apples to use… which, once they won the competition, they would have had.”
 
I’m going to spell this out veeeery plainly, since you’ve proven yourself too dim-witted to follow it on your own – the reason I brought up that they “[have never] done that before”, is because the fact that they’ve never done it before – nor will they ever again, barring cases of emergency – means that the Apple Family farm’s average output of goods both was, and is, limited to how much input the four family members can provide on their own.
 
As for this being an episode “where they in fact did just that”; uhh, yeah, for a contest. Which is NOT the typical market situation… as a last resort.
 
Ahhh, ain’t it a bitch when facts come back to bite you on the ass? Not that I would know – you’re the expert on pitting yourself against facts, here.
 
(cont)

@TexasUberAlles
 
“To quote… villains?””
 
That, and explore the feeble psychosis of a painfully generic pseudo-intellectual when faced with his own economic illiteracy – not to mention his hypocrisy.
 
Great job following my prediction to a T, by the way. So far as presenting as many defense mechanisms as possible goes, you’re doing an excellent job. *clap clap*
 
 
“You might… definitive.“
 
*facedesk*
 
Tell me, do you just repress anything that interferes with your pathological need to throw around as many (hypocritical) accusations as possible?
 
I’m knowledgeable about the economics behind agriculture. I am not overly knowledgeable about such things as proper harvesting methods, crop rotation, maintenance of farm machinery, application of pesticides, and so on – nor do I have to be. How many times have I spelled this out for you now, only for you to demonstrate that you utterly lack the ability to even begin to understand the most basic of concepts I’m talking about?
 
I’m guessing you’re not done, though. Hell, you don’t even understand how to use quotation marks properly, instead applying them to a) things that are obvious and straightforward, such as the fact that I lived in the agriculture-based Salinas Valley region, and b) well-known and accepted mathematical terms (such as limiting factor – just in case we needed more evidence that your mathematical knowledge is effectively non-existent). Seriously, are you channeling Dr. Evil or something?
 
Besides, what I was pointing out wasn’t “subjective experience” at all. That was information gained from observation and analysis of the system as a whole. By your logic, conducting the classic rocket lab in Physics 101 doesn’t make the student any more knowledgeable on kinematics, because the process was, supposedly, “subjective experience”.
 
“As… booru?”
 
… so you have a competent stock-broker… uhh, cool? Am I meant to be impressed or something? I mean, it’s obvious that you have a pathological need for approval, seeing as how you’ve shown yourself to be desperate for validation from complete strangers to the point of asserting a self-constructed reality wherein I’m supposedly being “laughed at” (ironically, everyone else who is bothering to contribute to this thread is either mocking *you*, or supporting me… but, pfft, it’s not like the truth matters, right?), but… that’s really not anything to brag about.
 
Hell, even if it is entirely your own accomplishment, then, once again, I redirect you to my car/astronomy analogies – being able to invest well only shows that you can predict when prices will rise and fall, not that you have any idea of the intricacies going on within the entire market system as a whole, like people who actually bother to study economics do.
 
Well, if you have such almighty intuition, then perhaps you can answer some simple economics questions:
 
Can you list me what the five defining qualities of “money” are?
 
Can you tell me what fractional reserve banking is, how it, effectively, generates money, and around what time it was put into practice in the US?
 
Can you describe, in detail, how practices such as fractional reserve banking and massive use of fiscal policy, as well as policies such as the Federal Farm Loan Act, Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, Agricultural Adjustment Act, and the creation of the Federal Reserve, worked in conjunction with factors such as the Dust Bowl to cause the most well-known boom-bust cycle in world history – colloquially known as the Roaring Twenties, followed by the Great Depression?
 
Do you know anything of the hyper-inflation faced by the Weimar Republic between 1922 and 1924?
 
Oh, an easy one - can you tell me what the difference is between investment and speculation?
 
I know the answer to all of these. Can you even answer one?
 
As for what my expertise gets me – I’m currently going to college. For Astrophysics, as well as Economics and Linguistics. In a few years, my expertise is going to get me a number of degrees from prestigious universities, job security, no small level of academic authority and recognition, the knowledge that I can use my skills to better humanity… and, well, a level of raw understanding of the amazing world we live in.
 
I realize that a knuckle-dragging semi-Luddite like yourself can’t even begin to see the value in anything aside from satisfying your base appetites, but, eh. That’s why you’re an arrogant, hypocritical, self-absorbed intellectual impotent, rabidly preaching the word of sensationalist pop-philosophy to complete strangers on the internet, flapping your gums about subjects you know hardly anything about, and refusing to swallow your bloated pride no matter how frequently or thoroughly your arguments are refuted, nor the extent to which your paltry psychological constructs and coping mechanisms are exposed, and promptly deconstructed.
 
“Well, in fact you never actually said— or implied— any of that,”
 
As a matter of fact, I did. The exact quote is as follows:
 
”Now you’re just being pedantic. Argue points, not semantics.”
 
It was perfectly clear from context that I was calling out your statement for ignoring my actual argument. If you are seriously incapable of comprehending what I was saying there… well, to be honest, I’m not surprised at this point. It’s not really fair to expect someone as slow and pretty clearly impaired as yourself to show even that basic amount of competence, now is it?
 
“so I was sort of relying… add “analogy” to the ever-expanding list of concepts which you are incapable of understanding.”
 
BahahaHA! You’ve honestly been reduced to this? Okay then, allow me to give the rest of the prior quote:
 
“Call them whatever you please – the fact remains that were selling a processed good for a profit, and the fact also remains that their machine was a great showcasing of both mechanical expertise and creativity, AND entrepreneurial spirit.”
 
The original argument I was making referred to both the Apple family and the Flim-Flam brothers as cider retailers. They were both responsible for introducing a good to the market, that specific instance of which would not have been available before; in that sense, the Flim Flam brothers were producers (moreso if you consider that they were originally selling cider that DIDN’T come from the Apple farm, yet another point I’d raised before and which you promptly ignored), and it is perfectly acceptable to refer to them as such - particularly in a non-rigorous environment. Nowhere did I say that the two roles were one and the same, and yet, it’s on this *fairy-tale* of a point that your over-inflated, incoherent, cultist-reminiscent diatribe, as well as your original analogy, hinges upon (A classroom example of that logorrhea I was talking about, mate. Ya just keep making this easier and easier for me). Playing make-believe and pretending I said something I didn’t; is that really the BEST you can do?
 
Once you come out of hiding from the absolute SCORES of figurative comparisons I’ve made that you’ve promptly covered your ears and chanted “LALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOOOOOOUUUUU” at, then you can talk to me about understanding analogy, mate.
 
(cont)

TexasUberAlles in this thread…  
Oh God.  

@The Smiling Pony Spoilers: Watching paint dry was more enjoyable than this thread!

@The Smiling Pony  
Dude initally responded to 55 words with 374 words, and subsequently demanded detailed annotated refutations of every individual letter and punctuation mark he ever posted; this crazytrain was off the rails pretty much the moment it cleared Hoogivsa Dam Station.

I’ve read some really good fics that had less words than all this.
 
Wow.

To quote BP6D82, “Wow. All that to defend the actions of a pair of cartoon villains?”
 
@JetClam  
‘‘the real world’’ is not defined as ‘‘my (your) individual, subjective experience’’.  
You might want to tell that to the guy who claimed that “living in Salinas” somehow made him an agricultural expert, he seemed pretty convinced that his “individual, subjective experience” was definitive. As far as what money is, how prices are set, how investment and credit really works, and how we can gain the most utility from limited resources. yyyeah, I do all that– actually do it, not bloviate about other people doing it– and make $3~~$4 for every $1 I invest. My expertise buys me goods and services; what does your “expertise” get you, other than laughed at on a Pony image booru?
 
putting words in my mouth  
[puts words in own mouth, retcons previous statement]  
Well, in fact you never actually said-~~ or implied– any of that, so I was sort of relying on the difference between a producer and a processor– namely that the latter is completely useless without the former– to be so obvious that even one as dense as you could follow it. To that end I provided a clear and easily understood analogy to highlight the ridiculousness of your false conflation of the two, which you seem to have misread as direct quote, so I’ll go ahead and add “analogy” to the ever-expanding list of concepts which you are incapable of understanding.
 
Applebuck Season was nonstandard because Big Mac would normally be part of it if he weren’t injured, and AJ let herself be goaded into turning “I’ll take a bite out of this job by day’s end” into “I’m gonna get every last apple out of those trees this Applebuck Season all by myself”; that’s… not standard. All of your impotent flailing about seasonal work goes back to your claim that the rest of the Mane Six “don’t count”– to coin a phrase, ‘‘How so? Because you want it to be?’’ toward the true output capacity of the farm, to which I responded that the true capacity was essentially [however many locals they felt like hiring], and the limiting factor was not “available labor”, but “Apple Family stubbornness”; you never have actually countered that other than to bleat about them never having done that before… while talking about an episode where they in fact did just that, and… dramatically increased their output.
 
the effect the operation is having  
The effect was that F&F got run out of town because they delivered liquid compost instead of cider. Their business model was inferior and the Free Market spoke.
 
logorrheic  
rambling bullshit  
…  
[makes a post which is literally 1386 words and 8012 characters]  
ahahaha  
As long as you’re pretending to be the planet’s foremost economic expert and world champeen at labor valuation– because you looked up a tautological 20/20 hindsight theory or two in an Econ 101 textbook once without bothering to pick up a History book and see how well any of that humbug played out in the real world whenever anyone tried to put it forward into actual practice– how much of your own time and effort have you put into pounding out onto your sticky keyboard the 5,140 words and 30,157 characters that you’ve posted here? How many hours have you spent at this in a sad and pitiable attempt to sound smarter and more perceptive than you are, in an increasingly childish and whiny tone of voice? I ask because every single time that I have ever replied to your smirking delusions and self-congratulatory nonsense, I have been at work, getting paid by the hour, in downtime that would have otherwise been spent on… some other cartoon horse-related activity. How much did you get paid for any of this argybargy? This is exactly what I’m talking about when I laugh at you for presuming that your fantasies about what should work are somehow more valid than what actually works. You’re screaming at a monitor in a desperate cry for validation from strangers about pet theories which don’t hold water in the present tense, and I’m turning a profit right now. Keep laughing through your patented “logorreic rambling bullshit” if you like, little one; I will always be laughing last, because you cannot waste my time– I’m getting paid for it.
 
@Greenjack  
two paragraph diatribe on how stupid JetClam is  
To be fair, he is pretty stupid.
 
actually address this point  
I’m… not sure what point you’re on about. That they should have had sense enough to work out a mutually beneficial deal instead of taking a foolish challenge? Well, of course, that was self-evident, as was the fact that if they had, there wouldn’t have been an episode, any more than Last Roundup would have happened if AJ had just said, “Y’all are makin’ too big a deal-a this, Ah might not win all that money, y’know. Let’s wait fer the chickens to hatch ‘fore we count ‘em.”
 
cheating  
Man, they covered that onscreen; you can quibble at their definition of “family” if you want, but theirs is the final word on it.
 
the apple family specifically agreed to who could produce the most cider, completely negating your ‘‘quality over quantity’’ argument seeing as quality was no longer a factor  
Quality is still a factor if the end product doesn’t have enough of it to meet the basic definition of “cider”; that was ground up apple tree mush, and they lost by forfeit because they didn’t deliver what the terms of the deal demanded. They’re the ones who cheated– by substituting farm waste for cider– and they got run out for it.

@Greenjack
 
Aye, he has been making a point of ignoring that inconvenient little detail, hasn’t he? I guess he figures that even he can’t bullshit his way out of that one. chuckles

@TexasUberAlles
 
Starting this comment off with a logorrheic delivery of what was already a fairly childish insult really isn’t the best way to make yourself seem like less of a pseudo-intellectual, mate.
 
If they had hired any other workers to aid in the cidermaking process, they would have been present at the competition - no-one was. And, come to think of it, the actual scene showing the sales to the town discredits that as well; if they were willing to hire labor to help them make the cider, then by Luna’s mane, why didn’t they do so from the SCORES of able-bodied ponies who, apparently, wanted that cider enough, and had enough free time to boot, to just wait around in line for it for the better part of a… several… days?
 
Pinkie’s desire to use the bathroom actually played a role, albeit a minor one, in the narrative, as would have the presence of workers in this case – here, though, it’s a major role. If they would show Pinkie needing the little mare’s room for the sake of a joke, I’m fairly certain they would have shown something as blatant as the Apple Family having non-family members help with the cider-making. Once again, your argument fails to hold water.
 
Where exactly are you going with this? Whether the Apples lacked the labor because of their pride, or because of a shortage in the labor pool, has no standing to the argument… at all. Make all the excuses you want - the fact remains that they can’t, and won’t, be able to match the Brothers’ cider output, given that the brothers had the same number of apples to use… which, once they won the competition, they would have had. The output won’t be affected if the actual cider-making process was not sped up, in much the same way that adding more cars to a congested highway won’t increase the rate at which people get home. That’s why it’s a limiting factor – and your “but they have more apples!” spiel doesn’t even begin to address this crucial issue.
 
Furthermore… Applebuck Season, “nonstandard”? How so? Because you want it to be? And if we take this to be true, then should we also ignore the season-openers for being “nonstandard”? Should Lesson Zero be ignored, even though that episode was the impetus for the other five writing friendship reports throughout season 2?
 
shrugs Not only does your objection mean less than nothing, seeing as how you have effectively no first-hand knowledge of the Salinas area (oh look, MORE irony!), but it, once again, completely dodges the issue. The fact is that I lived there, and thus knew what was going on in the community; as such, I know that there were crops left in the ground, and due to my family being somewhat close with various local farmowners, I also know why that was – lack of cost-effective labor.
 
Tell me, how exactly would having experience with the farmwork itself be meaningful in this context? What does driving a tractor or picking crops have to do, exactly, with, say, calculating whether said crops would be profitable? Honestly, even so far as desperate appeals to ethos go, that was exceptionally transparent.
 
“Unsupported by reality”, eh? Maybe not in the fantastical “reality” constructed by the same genius who lacks the capacity to realize that said rigorous analysis – or, as you put it (incorrectly), “theorizing” - is very heavily based on mathematics, logic, absolute boatloads of historical evidence and statistics, and studying how all of these fit together into one system, and that actually thinking about something is more effective than operating entirely off of instinct and limited, subjective human experience; but, for those of us who aren’t blinded by a zealous obsession with pop-philosophy, I’m afraid that’s not the case. Your feelings and perceptions are nothing compared to the comprehensive understanding of an economist who has studied the big picture – thus, I am not a hypocrite when I use my understanding of Economics to back me up. Check and mate.
 
The only hypocrisy to be found is, as usual, with you, saying that my thorough array of knowledge isn’t valid, but your limited one, is. Essentially, what you’re saying is this: “You think you can back up your arguments with this gigantic jig-saw puzzle? Feh! Now, it’s perfectly fine for me to do exactly the same thing except with only one piece from that puzzle, but hey, it’s me! What, you think I’m gonna hold us all to the same standard of evidence? PshAW.”
 
… what? I said nothing of the sort. What I said is that your objection was based on semantics – which it was. It was exceedingly clear from the context of what I said that the word “producer” was used to refer to the people who gave Ponyville the product, not to the technical role which each element played in the market process – something which was irrelevant as to the point I was making… and still is now, come to think of it. I must say, this is the first time you’ve blatantly resorted to putting words in my mouth; you must really be getting desperate.
 
… Wait a minute… not only did the Flim-Flam brothers bring their own barrels of cider from god-knows-where on the second day, but the whole contest was focused around who would get control over the raw material production process. So… yes, actually they are producers, or at least could be considered such in this argument. Yet another way in which you are wrong; kudos, mate. thumbs up
 
Hate to break it to ya, but “the real world” is not defined as “my (your) individual, subjective experience”. Now, I realize that you can’t fathom the possibility that the universe does not revolve around you, but you’re gonna have to come to terms with that simple reality.
 
Allow me to (re)refute this entire flood of “I’m-trying-too-hard” with one simple analogy – “I know how to build a house! Therefore, I also know WHEN to build a house, WHERE to build a house, what materials would be most cost-effective, how much money (that is, resources) to invest in the first place, how much to sell it for… oh, wait. No I don’t.”
 
As to your claim that selling art at a con gives you a comprehensive understanding of economics – that is to say, what money is, how prices are set, how investment and credit really works, and how we can gain the most utility from limited resources; well, I drove a car on Wednesday – I guess that makes me an auto-mechanic, huh? Meanwhile, the geocentrists and flat-earth cultists are justified in saying that the Earth is flat, because “Look around you! Does the world LOOK like a sphere!? pfft Astronomers, what fucking IDIOTS…”
 
Besides, I never claimed to know how a business runs effectively – all I’m an expert on, and all I need to be an expert on in this argument, is whether said business should be running to begin with. Aka, Economics. You know why? Because that’s what determines whether the Apples, or the Flim-Flam brothers, better satisfied Ponyville’s desires; not how to optimize the mechanics behind an operation, but the effect the operation is having.
 
Your argument is just as completely debunked as it’s always been.
 
I’m now curious what coping mechanism you’re going to employ in your response this time. It really doesn’t matter; it’s all routine for when the flimsy palisade of superiority and airs of wisdom crumbles around someone as thoroughly humiliated as you. Still though, it’s fun to anticipate what it’ll be; more projection of your flaws onto others, complete with parroting back the specific phrases they used? More fervent attempts to poke holes in my arguments where there are none to be found? Feigning callous disinterest and more veil-thin illusions of confidence to compensate for the cognitive dissonance you feel at your dogma being demonstrated to be wrong? Whatever it is, I guarantee it won’t work in tricking people into agreeing with you, seeing as how you’ve been clearly shown to be not only a bawling idiot but a liar suffering from delusions of grandeur as well as well. What facade will the desperate fanatic put on this time, I wonder… but whatever it is, mate, I can guarantee ya, I’ve seen it all before.

@TexasUberAlles  
Okay, you just went on a two paragraph diatribe on how stupid JetClam is instead of counteracting one major point of his, I.E. that the apples were given a normal business proposition and instead of doing the math and attempting to negotiate a deal, even going so far as to not ask for any specifics on how the machine works to ensure proper apple family standards, and instead refused to negotiate further. I’d like to hear you actually address this point instead of acting like it doesn’t exist. it’s okay to admit when a character from a fictional show does something stupid; it’s the writer’s fault anyway.
 
second, you mentioned “pride” as applejack’s main motivation for not calling in help in applebuck season, yet she only actually called her friends in for help during the competition, cheating in the process (seeing as it was supposed to be the apple family only that produced the cider) the flim flam bros allowed it, and you know what? the flim flam brothers still won. it was a rather pyrrhic victory seeing as public demand mandated the resulting losses be returned to their original owners, but it was still a victory.
 
third; the apple family specifically agreed to who could produce the most cider, completely negating your “quality over quantity” argument seeing as quality was no longer a factor, which in turn negated the need for granny smith and rarity to be judging the apples since in this case one bad apple DOESN’T spoil the bunch, and even if it does it didn’t matter! even with her prissy attitude rarity, with her ability to levitate dozens of objects at once, even ones the size of a full grown pony, would have at least brought the cider production to a tie since even an incompetent worker that isn’t interfering with anyone else’s work is going to boost production, and rarity, while not a fan of manual labor, is decidedly not incompetent.
 
fourth: if they had come to a tie then the three most obvious courses of action would be to add more time to the clock, to admit they were equally matched (at least as far as the competition goes) and either resume business negotiations, or go to a quality test, which the apples would win regardless of how much they decreased their quality control standards because no matter how low their standards dropped hand picked apples are not going to have as much debris in them as cider made out of a tree that’s been sucked up into a fucking vacuum!

@JetClam  
Dude, all you’ve “repeatedly proven” is that you’re a tragic victim of craniorectal inversion. They could have been hiring Dragons and parasprites as temporary workers for all we know, the show isn’t a season of 24 presenting every detail of every day in real time; I am pretty sure that The Last Roundup wasn’t the only time in the history of Equestria that a pony ever took a leak. Everything about Applebuck Season was nonstandard, it can’t be used as some sort of ironclad blueprint for how thing are normally done. Applejack was trying to do everything by herself to prove that she could, because it was A Challenge; the “limiting factor” was her own ego and pride, which certainly did seem to be the only limiting factor in SCS6K as well until she got over herself and called for reinforcements.
 
You’re gonna have to try a little harder to position yourself as some sort of agricultural Wile E. Coyote Supragenius than even more thrilling personal tales of having idly watched in passing as other people worked for a living (while simultaneously treating someone else’s actually useful personal experience as being somehow less valuable than your lackwitted unsupported-by-reality theorizing, in case you thought I had missed that laughable hypocrisy). Do you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you make claims as staggeringly stupid as the difference between a producer and a processor being “semantic”? That’s like saying there’s no substantive difference between a writer and an editor, it just “repeatedly proves” how astoundingly ignorant you are.
 
For the record: yes, dear child, being involved in the day to day operation of a working cattle ranch does in fact involve rather quite a lot of practical economics and business administration. I’m an art vendor at an anime convention this weekend and I sell my most popular product at a greater than 300% markup– and it is still less expensive and of higher quality than any comparable product in the artist alley– so don’t cry for me, Argentina, I do kindasorta know what I’m doing here. I have exactly zero use for supercilious nincompoops who mistake economic theory as having any other value than 20/20 hindsight after the fact when compared to people who are putting actual knowledge and experience into practice right now. How many businesses do you run?– he asked with vast wellsprings of eyelash-batting innocence– or are you not quite finished making the point-and-laugh hilarious claim that ignorant and uninformed theory spun by ponces who’ve never actually done anything useful somehow has more value in the real world than practical experience? Be sure to explain how an idea you had about how you think things should work somehow rates higher than than the experience of people who actively make a living by understanding how things actually work.

@JetClam Obviously, he learned from the best!