I’d use it on a Princess or Discord to show off to Arceus.

@Just Wayne
It’s more or less why I like to compare ponies like Lightning Dust and Trixie to the Mane Six. Like, it’s fine to say they did shitty stuff, because they did, but like people like to act like Lightning Dust was the only baddie in Wonderbolts Academy when Rainbow Dash did everything Lightning Dust did, and Spitfire encouraged it every step of the way, and then try and justify why it’s wrong for Lightning Dust to do it but okay for Rainbow Dash to do it :P

@Badumsquish
It’s so funny that we’ve delved into the point where any morally ambiguous actions from the main characters are basically always painted as either pure evil or absolutely horrible that I start questioning whether or not I should be a fan anymore, but honestly I’m used to it at this point. The show is over anyway and I don’t care anymore.

@Just Wayne
It’s not like it’s bad writing or anything. Like, it’s totally in-line with their personalities. Dashie’s defined more than anything else by her arrogance and her loyalty to her friends. Of course she’d 100% blame Lightning Dust for anything that happened between them and confidently genuinely believe she was innocent. Same with the rest of the Mane Six, who have always treated any wrongdoing on their part in one of two ways: either they’re like “Oh we did wrong but we learned from it so it’s not wrong anymore” or they blame someone else for it. It makes perfect sense they’d genuinely believe they didn’t have any culpability in any of those incidents :P

@Badumsquish
Goddammit I ran out of arguments. This is why I only have Fluttershy as my favorite. Nothing is sacred but her. Always go for Fluttershy~

@Just Wayne
I’ve always had a “so fucking what?” attitude for most excuses. It’s one thing when it’s an act of desperation or spontaneity, but a lot of them are just like “I was wronged so now it’s okay to ruin as many lives as humanly possible.” Like, ever watch Addams Family Values, with Debbie and the MALIBU BARBIE that she wanted? A lot of “sympathetic” baddies in shows are exactly like her, except we’re actually expected to feel bad for them :P

The Mane Six weren’t “innocent” though. They were like someone who hopped the fence to Area 51 to see what was going on in there, then got caught smack-dab in the middle of some training cross-fire. And again, Scootaloo LITERALLY took a job doing what she herself described as “[doing] all sorts of extreme stunts that focus on daredevilry and sheer guts rather than boring old flight and formation junk”, “[having] the Crushinator Jaws of Smashalot, patent pending”, and “strapping my scooter to a multi-stage liquid-fueled rocket and jumping twenty-two wagons lined up in front of a roaring crowd.” See for yourself. She hardly has anyone else but herself to blame for getting put in those scenarios: she literally bragged about being strapped to a rocket to do a life-threatening stunt before Lightning Dust asked her to do it. I’m not saying she or the Mane Six deserved what could have happened to them, but they were the most at-fault for being in those potentially dangerous situations. It’d be like if Trixie got hurt doing that manticore mouth-dive thing: it’d suck, but she knew what she was getting into XD

@Badumsquish
It really depends on one’s attitude after redemption. As much as I support killing to stop the worst of the worst, everyone still deserves at least one second chance, especially when they cherish that second chance. Things like mental illnesses, impulses, or basic poor judgements exist. It’s how they feel about those things that matters to me, like yeah they did shitty things but then they feel tremendously regretful of them and actually never do it again. Take Lightning Dust for example again, she is the one character everyone thinks deserves a second chance despite her reckless actions and she only admits wrong very slightly instead of a full remorse. I actually would love for a redemption arc for her where she learns to value lives more. It seems possible since she is known for not holding grudges and hatching schemes. I’m not saying she shouldn’t come back or should be left behind, but that her actions should be acknowledged as being reckless. Still, if we’re so willing to redeem her, why can’t the same be applied to all the others? It’s a cliche saying but I do believe everyone deserves a second chance. Yes, people suffered because of them but that’s in the past and that can’t be changed anymore. What really matters for me is if they still hurt people in the present.

The incident in Wonderbolts Academy is hard to defend but the matter of fact is Lightning Dust almost killed innocent ponies and that’s not something to brohoof about. I will still defend Scootaloo though. How was she supposed to research? I don’t think there would be a document that says the Washouts are in possession of a lethal and possibly illegal rocket, and obviously Dust wouldn’t and didn’t let Scoot know beforehand or it’d be easier for her to back out. Without prior knowledge, Scootaloo had no way to descend slowly enough to land safely, couldn’t get a parachute, and it looked like none of the Washouts including Lightning Dust herself, was going to do anything about it. Sad Scootaloo’s wings probably wouldn’t be enough to slow her descent. It’s not about whether or not Scootaloo could have been in danger from the other contraptions, but that Lightning Dust tricked a disabled child and knowingly forced her into a potentially fatal situation without prior information. It should be Dust’s responsibility to ensure the safety of all of her Washouts members, especially a young newcomer. What if Scootaloo had actually died? Would she have enough conscience to realize she stopped a child from having a future. Not saying anything by this but you talked about victims deserving more sympathy than the villain for what they have been through yourself, yet you keep blaming the victims instead of the perpetrator in this specific instance.

@Just Wayne
@Background Pony #7314
A big thing for me is when people don’t deserve the redemption. You get to the point where you don’t care that they genuinely have changed or have regretted their actions – they flat-out don’t deserve a happy life because they stole happiness and life from so many other innocent people. People always fret about the villain themselves, never about the people who’s lives were ruined by them. Especially when characters do that whole psychopathy-type “redemption” where they’re only curbing their behavior because they’re benefiting from not doing that behavior anymore: they haven’t changed, they’re just being given what they want to not be evil anymore. So they’re not “relapsing” but are merely seeing opportunities where it would benefit them more to do wrong than to do good. Like, Zuko was always villainous, but he was never a bad person. Even at his worst he was a noble person, he had a strong sense of right and wrong and would choose always choose right unless he had no other option, and hell even his introductory has him use non-lethal force to take down Sokka: he could have roasted Sokka alive for attacking him and nobody could have stopped him, but he chose to take him down with hand-to-hand tactics instead, and he could have told Aang he’d go back and murder the water tribe if Aang ever escaped but he didn’t :P

Still, Scoots really should have done her research before joining a stunt team as dangerous as them, and I’d argue dodging fire or electricity would be more dangerous than being shot into the air: Scootaloo could slow her descent, wear a parachute, or another Washout could catch her, but if fire or electricity got her she’s dead where she stands. And the thing about tornadoes being out of the control of the Wonderbolts, is they use a tornado every year to get water to Cloudsdale and it’s not just them but a bunch of civilians under their observation. I’d argue a tornado is well within their comfort zone, and that a pony being thrown by the Dizzitron or losing control during their stormy obstacle course would have shot down Twiggles’ balloon just as easily as that tornado. And if The Wonderbolts don’t indicate their training zone limits that’s 100% their fault: there’s a reason they put fences, and no trespassing signs, and sentries around every single military and civilian training area on the planet: what if someone flew through there and got hit by one of these things? Would that be Dizzy Twister’s fault? :P

@Just Wayne
this is true yeh, plus he never was that bad in first place

@Background Pony #7314
Yes but Zuko eventually sticks to the right side and never tries anything funny anymore. It would have been heartbreaking if he suddenly attacks Katara during the Agni Kai against Azula or secretly return to his father to tell him Team Avatar’s plan. He sticks to Aang and his friends until the end and never turns back again.

@Just Wayne
relapsing doesn’t mean someones redemption is pointless, people make mistakes. think of zuko for example he made hundreds of mistakes before he finally got it right. realistic redemptions at least.

@Badumsquish
I actually like the pure evil kinds that just don’t care if whatever they do is right, those that don’t talk about a bunch of crap and do whatever the hell they want. Sometimes a bad guy would be like “This world is imperfect so I have to cause chaos to teach them a lesson. You would never understand as only I can see the truth blah blah blah.” like shut up you’re doing awful things. Just ben honest, admit to it, and probably have fun until the plot stops you or something. It’s honestly way worse if they try to make their actions make sense when someone else probably has the same experience but they’re the one that chooses to cause harm to achieve their goal. There are thousands of ways to make something happen. Why are they allowed to do specifically that way? On the topic of regret. It depends on their later actions for me. Any kind of reformation is taking a risk, no matter when and why it happens. Maybe sometimes they just grew a conscience or they hated doing evil things to begin with but thought it’s their only option. Whatever the case, their regret is eventually believable when afterward they actually change their attitude and stop doing what they did. It’s more about “change”. If a character just relapses occasionally or still has a horrible attitude after some time has passed, the redemption is basically pointless. It’s more about trust and then forgiveness comes after trust. It’s not about sympathy either. It’s just about chance, and if they don’t value that chance, maybe they shouldn’t be sympathized at all. (Oh and the Obi Wan series is out already? That’s something new.)

In Scootaloo’s defense, she’s never seen that giant rocket before. They have never used that kind of contraption in any of their stunts and they always rely on their own wings to evade danger. Scootaloo probably thought she was gonna jump through fire, rush through buzzsaws, and do loops which she can easily achieve with her speed. She never expected something that’d launch her into the sky where landing safely is an impossibility for her, especially after loudly claiming her inability to fly. Even more, Lightning Dust says so herself she never tested the thing so of course Scoot wanted to back out. She is basically being used as a test subject for an extremely dangerous device. Imagine being the test dummy of a collision test. She was never informed of a stunt that extreme, especially for a newbie like her. Despite Scootaloo’s maturity over several seasons, she is still young and impressionable. Lightning Dust is basically exploiting that lack of judgement like an influencer whose major audience is underaged children. If we always condemn influencers for doing that, why is Lightning Dust off the hook? In M6’s defense as well, there really isn’t any indication of the Wonderbolts training zone limits, and they wouldn’t expect a big tornado to come toward them. That tornado also reaches very far away from the academy and even Lightning Dust herself said she couldn’t control it. Tornados are probably out of Wonderbolts protocol. I mean they never even used it against a giant rampaging Spike, so I don’t think anypony expects to see a tornado anywhere around the Wonderbolts.

@Wayneponeth
Don’t get me wrong, I like most kind of villains, but I always liked the ones who make logical, goal-oriented decisions rather than just being evil for the sake of it. Quite honestly the ONLY villain I don’t like are the ones who do evil, dumb shit, and then suddenly regret it, and suddenly we’re supposed to pretend they’re actually a good person and sympathize with them. Spoiler for Obi Wan: Like Reva: she’s murdered hundreds on a petty revenge scheme, and suddenly we’re supposed to cheer her on for “finding her new way in life” because she ultimately spared Luke after savagely beating his parents? :P

To be fair with Lightning Dust too, I would go so far as to say pretty much all her wrongdoings were the faults of others. Like, she endangered a bunch of civilians, yeah, but only because those civilians wandered into a live training zone unannounced: would you blame a NASCAR driver for nearly running over a fan who jumped the fence and ran out onto the track during a race to visit one of the racers? And yeah she expected Scootaloo to perform a dangerous stunt, but Scootaloo willingly joined her team knowing they did dangerous stunts: like, what exactly did Scootaloo think she would be doing with the stunt team she’d been idolizing for the past week or so? Paperwork? It would be like a fire fighter realizing fires were dangerous upon arriving at a fire and being too chicken to try and fight it. I’d go so far as to say the only bad thing Lightning Dust ever deliberately did was be all like “too late lol!” when Scootaloo tried to back out of doing the stunt, while she’s otherwise pretty consistently decent overall: she even owns up to putting Rainbow Dash’s friends in danger and admits it was wrong of her, despite it not even being her fault :P

@Badumsquish
I don’t know. I kind of just like villains for the sake of being villains. I don’t really care what motive they have, like I hate to use anything to justify what they do, backstory, motive, tragedy etc. I think it’s better to just acknowledge their actions as bad. Even with Team Rocket I would say they don’t exactly have the best track record. I just like their charms. I also just like the freedom they show that we can’t have in real life. I just love watching them do evil things, be awful, and have fun. They’re all fake anyway and it’s not like I’m gonna follow their example. For me it’s like “What they do is bad but it looks like fun. I wish I could have this much fun but I know it’s not good.” It doesn’t really matter to me what their motive and whatever else is. I just want to see evil people be evil.

For Lightning Dust, I don’t think she wanted to actively mess with RD’s friend, or her adopted sister. It feels to me she just wanted to put a child in danger for the sake of a good show, and she showed no regret, both after almost killing 4 innocent ponies and after almost killing a child. It’s not about her motive, it’s more like her attitude and personality. She has little concern for others’ safety and little care for lives. It’s fine for her to start a stunt group for herself but she shouldn’t trick a young impressionable fan into throwing her life away and force her into it after she showed clear refusal. I like Lightning Dust as much as Trixie and most ponies but it doesn’t matter what she wanted was to get back at RD or just wanted a show, she put lives in danger and that’s enough to condemn her actions. Her motive doesn’t really matter to me when she’s still done wrong things.

@Wayneponeth
@Background Pony #B977
Yeah. I always liked the villains the best who actually have a reasonable motive behind their actions. I don’t mean reasonable as in right or wrong either, but reasonable as in it’s a pretty reasonable means of getting what they want. So like Iron Will, Trixie, and Lightning Dust are all three of the strongest villains the show has ever produced in that regard: they don’t do wrong to be jerks or because it’s fun (though they may enjoy some of it), but they do wrong and are jerks because it’s working toward a specific goal. Especially Lightning Dust, like she was amazing with all that. She didn’t plot, she didn’t scheme, she didn’t make a big revenge scheme against Rainbow Dash or stalk her or try to sabotage her Wonderbolts career: she basically said “I want to lead a team of stunt flyers. There are a number of good potential stunt flyers looking for jobs after being booted from the Wonderbolts. I’m going to start a team, hire them, and we’ll all be stunt flyers with me being team leader.” Rainbow Dash was such a small blip on her radar by the time they re-encountered each other that her screwing with Dash was just an opportunistic “Oh yeah, you and your friends screwed me over so I’m going to get a little payback because I can” kind of an affair :P

@Background Pony #B977
Just make a character who has believable goals and is willing to do bad things to make it happen :P

Speaking of villians, while I find the idea of playing an evil character in D&D tempting, I don’t think I could really do it, since, 1) I’m afraid of going too far with it/doing a poor job of it and 2) At the end of the day, I like being the good guy.

@Wayneponeth
True, if they’re fun enough and done right, villains can be fun, but at the same time, villains may do things that we as an audience would find utterly reprehensible and would want to see them taken down by the heroes.

@Badumsquish
Yeah, villains are so much more fun to watch. I don’t understand why people think villain is like a horrible label when it’s just a much cooler character. :P

@Wayneponeth
I think villains are more interesting than heroes in most shows. Because like there have to be rules with protagonists, like there are things they can or can’t do. Villains can basically do whatever they want, since we expect them to be bad XD

@Badumsquish
Yeah, the Team Rocket Trio has more or less become the show’s main characters too. They would get their own central episodes, their own heartfelt moment, each of them individually no less, and their own theme songs. It’s that despite being villains, they care about Pokemon and each other just as much as the heroes and they’re basically just around to add conflict to an otherwise dull adventure. They’re the heroes of their own story and probably beyond fan favorite at this point. :P

@Wayneponeth
It’s ironic too since they’re so much more developed than the characters. Like, Ash just wants to capture pokemon because “be the best” or something, Misty originally wanted her bike replaced but sort of just forgot about it, and Brock was there because there was nothing good on TV that day I guess, and none of them really have backstories. Then Team Rocket have like fully fleshed out backstories, sympathetic plights, and deep characterizations XD

@Background Pony #3CDD
@Wayneponeth
There must be at least one jerk-off in that world who jailbroke his pokeball to catch anything and then like hurled it at someone who was talking during a movie or something XD

@Background Pony #3CDD
It doesn’t work on humans anyway as far as we know. Green throws a ball at your character and it did nothing. It definitely doesn’t work on human in the anime. The rice ball/onigiri (screw you 4kids) moment actually makes sense since you seem to pick up items from Pokeballs in the games. I can’t be sure if it works on creatures other than Pokemon though, since no other creature ever appeared in the Pokemon universe and sadly crossovers like Super Smash Bros never used the opportunity to explore that possibility.

Will a pokeball even work on non pokemon… Oh wait it did catch a donut/riceball

@Badumsquish
Yeah, a part of it may be true. Because they all have such terrible lives (Jessie was too poor and failed Chansey nurse school. James is forced to marry a psychopath despite being a billionaire. Meowth learned to speak human to win over a female Meowth only for her to go after a Persian.), they’d rather stay Team Rocket forever together. They genuinely care for each other and they always reunite every time no matter how many times they disband. They probably intentionally get defeat by Ash and the gang just so they can enjoy the freedom of doing whatever they want instead of being bossed around in the headquarter. They even actually help their enemies sometimes out of kindness and morality. :P