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"[@Supes":](/images/2138442#comment_8445374
[bq="Supes"]) " 

> [@Background Pony #D6CB":](/images/2138442#comment_8444637
)
> The whole idea of what it "was building up to" is purely in your head (and other people's if they had the same speculation). The writers don't just decide last minute what's gonna happen in the finale, Grogar was always meant to not be real in this whole season - we just didn't know. And just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad writing, lol.


>
> Also, the others didn't lose any "nuance" or personality because they were not redeemed. Reformation is not the only way to go with a good villain. The princesses had every right to turn them to stone, too - to suggest they "shouldn't under any circumstances think that is reasonable" is pretty laughable. They turned villains to stone before, they imprisoned them in Tartarus (which is only marginally better), all for much less. Why should the princesses have, after all the events of the finale, decided the villains were up for reforming? That's ridiculous.


>
> And no, the finale was pretty good. [/bq]



 
Yeah, if you think about it, Grogar had a _*fishy_* story if you were taking it at face value. Let's see... he was banished for thousands of years, but he **didn't** try to depose Celestia when she was ruling by herself, say, 700-900 years after Luna/Nightmare Moon being banished, when you'd think he'd be more than powerful enough to fight her at _*half_* his power displayed in the premiere, he seemingly **gave up** on retrieving the bell after those three failed, he'd leave his lair for seemingly no good reason on numerous occasions (remember, he has this crystal ball that seemingly allows him to spy on others, but he'd left the area), his lair was on an **Equestrian map**... and of course, taking you _*literally_* thousands of years to locate your bell.


 
![full](https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2019/7/17/2094032__safe_screencap_princess+celestia_between+dark+and+dawn_spoiler-colon-s09e13_evil+lair_grogar%27s+lair_lair_levitation_magic_magic+aura_map_no+.jpeg!

)
 
Now, if you thought none of that was fishy, okay then, but to me, I think they absolutely had this in mind since the premiere too, because think about it: the only others "Grogar" was ever shown being remotely cruel with were the other villains, and if you rewatch the premiere, you'll notice that Grogar appeared **after** Discord teleported away in a scene with these parting words:

[bq]
 

> **Discord:** What? This is all so predictable. Now's the part where you all tell little Sparkle here that everything is going to be fine, but she won't believe you. Ugh. I don't need to be here for this.[/bq]



 
Does none of that seem like a red flag in hindsight?

"@Supes":/images/2138442#comment_8445374
[bq="Supes"] "@Background Pony #D6CB":/images/2138442#comment_8444637
The whole idea of what it "was building up to" is purely in your head (and other people's if they had the same speculation). The writers don't just decide last minute what's gonna happen in the finale, Grogar was always meant to not be real in this whole season - we just didn't know. And just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad writing, lol.

Also, the others didn't lose any "nuance" or personality because they were not redeemed. Reformation is not the only way to go with a good villain. The princesses had every right to turn them to stone, too - to suggest they "shouldn't under any circumstances think that is reasonable" is pretty laughable. They turned villains to stone before, they imprisoned them in Tartarus (which is only marginally better), all for much less. Why should the princesses have, after all the events of the finale, decided the villains were up for reforming? That's ridiculous.

And no, the finale was pretty good. [/bq]

Yeah, if you think about it, Grogar had a _fishy_ story if you were taking it at face value. Let's see... he was banished for thousands of years, but he *didn't* try to depose Celestia when she was ruling by herself, say, 700-900 years after Luna/Nightmare Moon being banished, when you'd think he'd be more than powerful enough to fight her at _half_ his power displayed in the premiere, he seemingly *gave up* on retrieving the bell after those three failed, he'd leave his lair for seemingly no good reason on numerous occasions (remember, he has this crystal ball that seemingly allows him to spy on others, but he'd left the area), his lair was on an *Equestrian map*... and of course, taking you _literally_ thousands of years to locate your bell.

!https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2019/7/17/2094032__safe_screencap_princess+celestia_between+dark+and+dawn_spoiler-colon-s09e13_evil+lair_grogar%27s+lair_lair_levitation_magic_magic+aura_map_no+.jpeg!

Now, if you thought none of that was fishy, okay then, but to me, I think they absolutely had this in mind since the premiere too, because think about it: the only others "Grogar" was ever shown being remotely cruel with were the other villains, and if you rewatch the premiere, you'll notice that Grogar appeared after Discord teleported away in a scene with these parting words:

[bq]*Discord:* What? This is all so predictable. Now's the part where you all tell little Sparkle here that everything is going to be fine, but she won't believe you. Ugh. I don't need to be here for this.[/bq]

Does none of that seem like a red flag in hindsight?