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Description
I never read A Friendship To Remember, but Wallflower looks to me like the kind of person who invites herself into your conversations or events and annoys the crap out of you so I’ve but I’ve decided that this is Wallflower’s color scheme and that she’s a ghost who pops out of walls to annoy other students :P
Source
not provided yet
@Background Pony #58D4
Didn’t really give it much thought, to be honest. I just wanted to give a monster a weakness, of sorts :D
So how would she react if someone ordinarily wore a Star of David necklace every day or something? Would it be similar to how Dracula reacted to Renfield’s cross pendant?
Isn’t that just because they are ungodly and have previously rejected God? Would “Wallshadow Blush” here be able to get into heaven by enduring these holy things and embracing God’s forgiveness?
It’s just specifically holy things. Ever see Fright Night, when buddy holds up the cross and the vampire’s like “You must have FAITH for that to work, Mr. Vincent” and just shrugs it off? It’s like that :P
Pretty much just being able to come out of walls, though her “clothes” take on some of the properties of whatever she comes out of :D
It wouldn’t be out of the question if Kevin McAllister from “Home Alone” was afraid of his furnace.
So what other sorts of powers would she have other than the ability to come out of walls, etc.? Does she have any weaknesses?
To me though, the strength of these characters always has been how honestly identifiable and “real” they actually feel. In terms of stuff like realistic, reasonable character faults and flaws this is seriously one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. So when they don’t act “real”, so to speak, like with these super-quick turnarounds it really works against the show, y’know :D
It’s not like a concern or anything either. Really it’s not much more than a nitpick, and honestly the show’s in a really good place regardless. :P
Edited
She didn’t though. Her actions with the memory stone didn’t address her struggle with being ignored and not having any friends. That was purely to seek vengeance on Sunset, whom she still believed to be evil. Being noticed is what she wanted out of life in general; ruining Sunset’s life (which she was stopped from going through with) is what she specifically wanted out of her terrible actions with the stone.
If it weren’t for the fact that this is a magical pony show, I would agree. As it is, though, I can see the mane 6 being that forgiving and Wallfower being that willing to improve herself after defeat, however unrealistic that might be by real world standards. While I don’t personally feel “the weight and preciousness of forgiveness and redemption” has been undermined, I do understand your concerns with fast turnarounds like what happened with Wallflower.
Edited
What makes me say “rewarded” is that everything worked out in the end for her and she got what she wanted with no consequences. She wanted to be noticed and to have friends, acted terribly, and got exactly what she wanted out of it. Granted, that would only actually bother me if that was actually presented as the moral of the episode (like One Bad Apple had a terrible intentionally presented moral), rather than just sort of being how things worked out :P
Like you said, the key word is “realistic”. And yeah lmao “realism” in a magical pony show, but still. I can’t see these characters realistically just trusting and forgiving someone for doing stuff like that, I can’t realistically see them getting away with it scot-free, and I can’t see someone just going from “let’s torture people for fun and profit” to “I’m a good person now”. So it makes it feel manufactured, which to me undermines the weight and preciousness of forgiveness and redemption. :D
I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to say she hasn’t changed at all. While making herself noticeable is still indeed something she has to work on, Wallflower has learned not to approach this problem of hers with anger and spite.
Again, just because Wallflower hasn’t figured out exactly how to be more outgoing in that precise moment doesn’t mean she hasn’t changed or does not wish to change. She did express what seemed like a genuine desire to become a better person after her defeat, and one could argue the fact two more people joined her gardening club (previously the only member was her) is evidence that she’s making progress. Even if the addition of Roseluck and Derpy wasn’t Wallflower’s doing, those two are still a good starting place for her to build up her social skills.
From what we’ve seen of redemptions in EQG (and FiM for that matter), while the mane six do help with the first steps and offer support along the way, it’s still up to the reformed individuals themselves to make the change. Wallflower should be no different. I wouldn’t say she got rewarded for her bad behavior (the humane 6 made it quite clear wiping people’s memories was not the right way to go), but she admittedly didn’t receive much in the way of punishment either (which I do concur isn’t exactly realistic). This has been the case for pretty much all of the reformed villains, so, like you said, I can’t fault the writers entirely on that.
In the end, though, I definitely do see where you’re coming from. Although I have largely grown accustomed to MLP’s way of doing things, I certainly wouldn’t mind a more ambiguous ending like the one you suggested.
Totally. Like, I think rather than totally happy endings something more ambiguous would work a lot better, like less “we forgive you” and more “we’re willing to help” kind of things and leave it at that, but again, writers want a happy ending (if they’re not outright mandated to have them) so it’s not like I can fault them on it or expect otherwise :P
@cloudkicker108
Here’s where it’s a flaw to me. So in the simplest most blunt way to put it Wallflower never gets noticed and has no friends, so she gets pushed to the brink, unleashes the Starlight, and makes a bunch of people suffer for it. She gets “defeated”, begs forgiveness, and gets it and friends. Happy ending… except her initial issue was never resolved. I’m not blaming her for it, but it’s clear it’s something she is or isn’t doing that makes her have so much trouble being noticed, and that hasn’t changed. She had no arc and, aside from learning “using witchcraft to take revenge on people who never wronged you to begin with: bad idea,” she’s not changed as a person outside of being happy that the mane seven accepted her. She never learned how to be more outgoing, or empathetic, or how to be noticed. To me, at least, that makes her forgiveness and newfound friendships not feel genuine at all, and more like a hostage situation like the mane seven have to forgive be her friend out of fear of what she might do if they don’t. That puts all the burden of change and friendship on them instead of Wallflower, which honestly sucks all the happy out of the ending: it’s why to me it feels like she was just rewarded for bad behavior, like a kid throwing a tantrum and getting a cookie to shut him up, instead of like an actual case of forgiveness and blooming friendship, right? :P
I wouldn’t necessarily say that. When Sunset was in physical agony from her memories being forcibly removed from her mind, Wallflower had a clear look of horror on her face. And when she was finally defeated, regret was the first thing Wallflower expressed.
But she didn’t. Yes, Wallflower’s now receiving more attention and has found peace with what was bothering her from the start, but those came at the cost of a change in perspective. Things obviously didn’t go exactly her way. If it did, the humane 6 would have no memories of high school and the students of CHS would have no memories of reformed Sunset.
I suppose that’s just a limitation of the medium. At the end of a day, this is a for-TV production with a target audience of young females; they can’t exactly go all “Lord of the Rings” on this. The fact they are were able to give us something like this within the constraints they have is already nothing short of impressive.
I can definitely see where you’re coming from. While I have gotten used to the whole “quick resolution” thing, I certainly would mind seeing the writers add more nuances to the stories, if they can. I’m glad you were able to enjoy the special regardless.
@Phantom Rider
I do see your point (and I agree with it), but I can’t fault people for making that assumption either. Nothing is off limits on the internet, and they are really individuals out there who think that way, so at times it can be hard to distinguish between someone exaggerating or making a hyperbole and someone expressing a genuine thought.
I think with Trixie, the conflict was a lot more personal. In her first appearance, Trixie boasted that she could outdo anypony at anything, but instead of doing that, she just used cheap tricks to publicly embarrass anypony who was brave enough to walk on stage, including Twilight’s friends. In her second appearance, Trixie focused in specifically on Twilight, whom she apparently loathed so much that so much that she went to the length of acquiring a powerful and dangerous magical artifact to use on her. While the stakes are higher when all of Equestria is threatened, low blows like what Trixie delivered usually hit closer to home.
Edited
Totally agreed. When you say that, some people think it means you want the character hanged, drawn, and quartered or something, but no… just have it take a little more to be forgiven than “it’s the end of the episode so suddenly we love you now.”
(The situations like this one also make it pretty bizarre when they don’t forgive someone for lesser things, too. Twilight Sparkle never once held a grudge against anyone who tried to end the world ten seconds ago but forgiving Trixie for having an ego when she last saw her years prior has to be the lesson of an episode before she can?)
I think it’s just sort of the tone that bothers me. Like, they have these people doing these really evil acts and then the heroes just kind of brush it off like “Oh yeah you tortured me and my friends, made us all suffer, had no hesitation or intent on stopping, and felt next to no regret for it, but we’re cool okay?” and the villain comes off like “Wow I’m going to stop because I got my way in the end.” I’m not badmouthing the writers because they’re amazing, but I think it’s just a “want your cake and eat it too” kind of thing where they want forgiving heroes and a happy ending, but also want a genuine villain. To me it just sort of makes it feel like they forgave her just because the episode wanted a happy ending rather than because these normally flawed and somewhat mistrusting characters who normally hold grudges (like with Trixie, Gilda, Flim and Flam, Gilda) felt moved by her plight and forgave her, y’know? I think just the most subtle little difference to the story would make all the difference for me, like have Wallflower want to do this but not be able to bring herself to do it, or have the characters be a little afraid to forgive her, would add that little bit of weight the story needs, y’know? :D
But… that’s just me. Like, it’s super obvious the writers are totally able to write really heavy and heart wrenching stuff when they want to, and that for this what they want is a more simple kind of happy end to the movie. That kind of thing’s not for me (though I overall really liked that special) but it’s definitely not bad or anything :P
That makes sense. Thanks for the input.
I think “tyranny” may be the word you’re looking for rather than “torture”.
Again, very slightly over the line, it starts to make this personal, and things go badly when it gets personal.
@Deserter
It’s borderline psychological torture. She’s sowing distrust and fear in her fellow students. The environment she creates from this is one that is dysfunctional at best.
It still isn’t goddamned torture.
She used text messages, for god’s sake.
The point is that Sunset was quite effective in putting everyone in their place and making sure they were all intimidated by her. She even fractured the humane 5’s friendship just to make sure there would be no one brave enough to stand up to her. Moreover, her motivations for all of this is not much more than a pure lust for power. That already seems like pretty malevolent behavior, if you ask me.
I mean, Sunset was a bully at most, besides being a total bitch she didn’t really do much until she, y’know, turned into a demon and all that.
Which I still think was a bad design choice, since she was using the Elements of Harmony to transform, but that’s beside the point.