lol so that was Twilight in the bottom panel, huh.
 
I thought It was some random passer-by

@MLPFan2012  
same!

sombra:radiant? its so beautiful here. theres a force …an umbrum force. its calling me home. i have to go now.  
rasiant hope: NO SOMBRA!!!

all I can think of is that scene in red vs blue where one of the characters shouts out “It’s ore beautiful than I ever imagined!”  
anyone else thinking this, or is it just me?

@CronoM  
Agree to Disagree.
 
My last final thoughts on Hope and Sombra however is one of the many problems I found with Starlights redemption that were never addressed is that they never gave a reason on why she wouldn’t do her actions again. I guess you could say it’s a reverse situation where Hope used to be Sombras morality chain and now it seems like Sombra is Hope’s really though at least her character is consistent.

@Jades  
Judging be her level of inaction, not even real emotional support, my belief is that she was betting half her coins on Sombra NEVER growing strong enough to be a threat while the Cystal Heart was active, and betting her other half of coins on pushing Hope into becoming a princess strong enough so that Sombra’s existance wouldn’t matter. If Amore was anything like Celestia’s greatest weaknesses of the past and present, friendship might not have occurred to her, and all she saw in the situation, before Sombra went insane, was good surpassing evil. One way, or another. Its doubly cruel if the latter was true.
 
While of course a 4 comic limit is going to cause a rush in quite a few aspects to some degree, I don’t feel it was done particularly bad compared to some honestly bad comics; The ones with no large plusses and no matching themes with the coming Season 5.
 
Sombra regained emotions of trust in the first part of his resurrection with Hope, he gained feelings of doubt shortly before Twilight wounded Hope, he had torn feelings while discussing his current plans with Hope and their future as Emporor and Empress, and he finally gained moral awareness when staring at his altered destiny. Not a bad setup.
 
We have to remind ourselves that his actions toward Celestia and Luna were preventative, he knew how powerful they were but he had no evil intent to kill them, and his actions while Hope was still unconscious were mostly out of anger, not lack of growth. That’s why overall, I don’t think that aspect is that badly done given the preset constraints.
 
Pausing for a second, we’re leaning back into Hope and Sombra again, something we agreed to avoid, so if you feel uncomfortable, we can just agree to disagree on those parts. Your call :)

@CronoM
 
Celestia also was technically young at that time though so I highly doubt she could wield it back then unless they were teaching young Alicorns back then too.
 
Yes she technically was a lich though they didn’t outright say it. These days a lich is more associated with dark magic even though technically that’s not what a lich is defined by.
 
I’m assuming that Amore was betting all her coins on Hope to save him somehow because I’m not sure Amore could fully control what the Heart was naturally set to do. We also have to remember it’s influence spreads across the rest of Equestria so I’d doubt he’d be safe there. The only place that looked to be safe for him was the Umbra world.
 
For Sombra though I think he needed a few more pages for it to play out more naturally for the destiny thing. The way it ended so fast feels really rushed. Not unnatural mind you just really rushed.

@Jades  
The same premier that introduced sombra introduced that celestia could wield dark magic. So there’s that possibility.
 
A lich using purified heart magic? Now that would be some twisty….wait, isn’t sailor moon, whom cadence and her kingdom was based on, technically a lich since her spirit was latched onto a crystal for reincarnation.
 
You might be on to something….
 
Amore probably didn’t have anything to do an instant fix, but she definitely could of addressed and accommodated the problem. Hope’s spell for saving him from his gate as an umbra needed his acceptance, 1000 years of healing experiance in exile, and the power of 4 princesses at most. But yeah, she could of at least made sure he didn’t suffer or go insane.
 
As for his destiny, even before hope cast her most desperate spell to save him, sombra looked into the crystal…and only saw himself. I loved that part. It might have just been her outright defiance of destiny, but similar to sunset’s emergence of a new element not shown on the tree, unlocking far FAR greater powet, something surpassed the destiny of what the could be seen with the crystal heart.

@CronoM
 
If I remember correctly in the books though it was Starswirl who was like a father figure towards them was he not? I’m guessing Amore could’ve been something both sisters wanted to aspire too if that was the case.
 
I wouldn’t say she was entirely umempathic though. Sombra was screwed where ever he went and judging by what we saw there was probably no way to save him from the Crystal Heart. So I wouldn’t put her down for that aspect though I do agree with you she was sorta spineless.
 
Huh honestly my headcanon is that she’s a Lich and the Heart is pretty much her Hocrux though that’s just baseless headcanon and I’m only applying it if she is that long lived in the first place.
 
Though like I said above I’m not sure Sombra had much of a choice. I mean how exactly were they going to save him? Without Hope he probably would’ve died from what we saw in that backstory.
 
Actually speaking of being more in tune with his dark magic who exactly would’ve taught him how to control it?

@Jades  
Sounds good to me.
 
That’s a very interesting point. Its a definite possibility, and assuming that is the case, I think some part of it was she was afraid of Sombra on several levels. One, he represented the Umbra, who were nigh unstoppable demons, and two, I think she was afraid that even if she tried to help, she didn’t have the power to actually help. The princesses in the show are well known for not being honest about their limits, both over AND under. At least to the main characters. On the other hand, she didn’t even try, and Sombra as a child was as innocent as they got. There’s being fearful, and then there’s being spineless and more then a little inconsiderate and unempathetic.
 
If the books are to be believed, Amore was already an adult when Celestia and Luna were just older teens. Being that she is the pony equivalent of Queen Serenity from Sailor Moon, I wouldn’t rule out Amore being as immune to aging as the two sisters, especially if her bloodline produces lesser alicorns. We have absolutely no idea what kind of being Amore was, so we can’t immediately write off her being only as old as she looked just because she was technically just a unicorn. If I was to guess, I would guess she attained power to be the exact opposite of the kind of pony both versions of Sombra grew up to be….neither of them alicorns, but still wielding powerful and rare magic.
 
“Of course enter Sombra who is nowhere near exactly like his race and Amore sees this and despite hating them and fearing the Umbrum she still gives him a chance anyways.”
 
(Again, the chances she ‘gave’ were as limited as you could get. She asked a young child to be honest about seeing himself as a monster, then a decade or two later, stated he had a choice after he was already driven insane and corrupted by the umbra.)
 
“I’m also not trying to whitewash her actions as her not doing shit is a strike against her but taken into context she could’ve easily had a conflict about helping Sombra or not.”
 
Don’t worry, I understand what your saying completely. But I feel that that conflict would of been more impactful if she met him as a teen or young adult already slightly in-tuned to his dark powers. Instead, she met him as a little child completely innocent. Given the circumstances, I’m not surprised they don’t treat Amore as a complete victim when talking about her at the end of the arc.
 
“Then again she must be blinded to the glory of her Empire if she honestly thinks that just telling someone to make a choice is going to turn them good no matter how much suffering they’ve been through.”
 
I fear that’s still a large part of it. :( Again, if the books are to be believed, then Celestia’s beliefs in pure absolutes concerning one out of many had to come from somewhere, and Amore was the only other pony ruler at the time, minus the 3 rulers among the 6 founders of Equestria of course.
 
“Actually do Celestia and Luna even know about Amores actions?”
 
Good question, and it was a big issue on how Celestia and Luna regarded reformed Sombra and Hope in the prior discussion.
 
Honestly, there’s not much to go on. However, there is one small thing….when Hope and Sombra discussed in front of them ‘giving Amore a second chance’, the princesses did not seem surprised by that statement. I honestly believe that they were informed, or at least found out eventually, how things went down. Not only would it make sense of their non-reaction, it helps contextualize the story on why Celestia and Luna were so eager to sweep things under the rug with reformed Sombra and Hope. The ‘who are we to pass judgement?, when not only is everything fixed, the Equestrian Monarchy was responsible for dooming your two lives for 1000 years’ type of guilt could act as a large karma balancer in Celestia. In other words, shame.

@CronoM
 
Yeah I’m kinda getting sick of talking about Radiant Hope so let’s move to Amore.
 
Quite frankly I always assumed she was fearful of Sombra somewhat actually. She locked this race which is by all standards completely evil and irredeemable to the point of even being killed off by love and light. She then actually was it ever said that made the weapon in the first place? Actually it seems like a long time has passed so she probably wasn’t even alive back when they were sealed. So if that’s the case then she could’ve been brought up being taught what the Umbrum are. If judging by the history we are giving I’m lead to assume that either she hated and feared them to the point of locking them up with a literal death bell above their heads.
 
Of course enter Sombra who is nowhere near exactly like his race and Amore sees this and despite hating them and fearing the Umbrum she still gives him a chance anyways. Now I admit this is all based off of assumption because we barely know anything about her and what little we know is barely enough to judge her character.
 
I’m also not trying to whitewash her actions as her not doing shit is a strike against her but taken into context she could’ve easily had a conflict about helping Sombra or not.
 
Then again she must be blinded to the glory of her Empire if she honestly thinks that just telling someone to make a choice is going to turn them good no matter how much suffering they’ve been through.
 
Actually do Celestia and Luna even know about Amores actions?

@CronoM  
Keep telling yourself that whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
Anyway was just here to say don’t be a dick when trying to discuss something if you want to be taken seriously guess I should have realized trying to tell someone who’s acting like that in the first place would just keep going.

@Pagan  
See? Even when giving the option of calming things down, all you want to do is start a fight. No deal.
 
Goodbye.

@CronoM  
Yeah I should chill not the guy insulting others no I should chill okay sure.

@Pagan  
Just chill out, jeezus.

@CronoM  

@Pagan  
I never claimed I didn’t say that. One of my last lines about the subject from me was those “double standards are one of the most frustrating constants I’ve seen in this fandom.” I was re-affirming my stance that some people will overlook Celestia and villainize comic characters like Hope that cause much less hazard for a nobler cause.
 
Yes, when you are addressing the other guys trying to spread aggression towards someone, then directly insulting me, of course it seemed like you were trying to start a fight. More the former then the latter, as you were trying to pull in multiple people for your aggression.
 
In reality, we were actually working to being more civil then you realized despite the earlier communication breakdown, and you simply jumped the gun and started looking for a ‘villain to fight’.
 
Dick move pal, srsly. Don’t jump the gun next time, allright?

@CronoM  
No I’m really not and yes you did you said people overlook celestia’s actions but will say things about Hope but when that didn’t pan out you claimed you didn’t say that.
 
I’m just saying maybe don’t be so condescending to others that’s all I’m sorry if it seemed like I was trying to start a fight but you were being kind of a jerk to others where it wasn’t necessary.

@Pagan  
What double standard? My opinion isn’t worth anymore then anyone else’s.
 
Starswirl just admitted his earlier posts weren’t that good at contextualisation or cohesion, the former I don’t think I even mentioned before.
 
I create walls of texts because I want to make my stance perfectly clear with tons of context. I have agreed with other people’s opinions on several points along with some stuff I didn’t agree with. I don’t like argueing for the sake of arguing, that just clutters up the comments section, and I literally can’t have a discussion with someone who doesn’t explain their opinion. Me and Starswirl are currently working on that. Trying to clear things up.
 
You, on the other hand, are just looking for a fight right now. No thank you.

@Starswirl  
Agreed. :) I’m sorry for my part as well.
 
I think it would be best if we discussed this freely using the message system before we finalize our conclusions here. Please message me your thoughts once you’ve prepared them.

@CronoM  
You make up a double standard and throw it at the people you’re talking to and when it gets called out you blame it on everyone else like you didn’t just do it so I’d say it’s relevant.
 
Maybe you actually don’t realize how bad you’re acting but you are being snide where it really isn’t needed I’m surprised anyone here wants to talk to you because right now you’re coming off as a jerk who can’t stand other peoples opinions.

@Pagan  
“Then stop doing it, problem solved.”
 
Don’t be an ass, Pagan. You know that was just a petty pot-shot, and nothing relevant to our discussion.

@Starswirl  
Guess that’s as good a reason as any I usually just leave when people start ducking it up.

@Pagan  
I don’t like fighting with folks, or leaving on a bad note.