Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
@𝐒𝐞𝐚𝐫
Now that’s a bus. That right there is a nice fucking bus. I’d ride that bus any day.
Also, he sounds like a nice guy. I don’t know what his politics are, but at least he gives people free food for the trouble of listening to him while he blocks traffic.
Meanlucario
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Time to get spooky
Seeing many not being happy with the ICE/immigration situation here but what else is there to do when the problem of illegal immigration has been allowed to become so big?
I am not saying that the immigrants themselves are bad, most of them seem to be very hardworking, but the effect they have on the economy is bad in the long run and crime caused by illegals is obviously also bad.
With their low cost, companies willing to hire them can undercut their competitors, workplace safety goes down the drain and you end up with entire industries dependent on illegals.
This is a problem and needs to be solved, even if it means some goods and services become more expensive.
A deadline should be drawn, and hardworking honest illegals in the country should be given a way to earn citizenship and register for this. However after the deadline, no more illegals will be accepted and should be promptly deported.
The border will have to be strictly policed and any criminal illegals should of course be deported by default even if already in the country.
I think an arrangement like this will be the only way to get this under control.
  1. They are using ICE to harass non-white folk instead of deporting illegal immigrants if you’ve been paying attention.
  2. Was it ever that much of an issue in the first place? As long as they pay their bills and not cause problems, they are practically the same as a legal immigrant and just another USA citizen. Maybe if it was much easier to become a USA citizen, than the number of illegal immigrants will drop off like a rock.
BlitztheDragon
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -

  1. Was it ever that much of an issue in the first place? As long as they pay their bills and not cause problems, they are practically the same as a legal immigrant and just another USA citizen. Maybe if it was much easier to become a USA citizen, than the number of illegal immigrants will drop off like a rock.
This exactly. We have a “problem” with illegal immigration due to how draconian our immigration laws are to begin with.
Any real, good faith effort to “solve” the “border crisis” would do the following things:
  1. Liberalize legal immigration and provide a path to citizenship for those already here.
  2. Extend labor laws to protect undocumented workers and allow them to defer deportation if they sue their employers for unfair labor practices.
  3. Greatly expand the number of courts that can hold asylum hearings to speed up a process, and set up a program between the states allowing for a timely resettlement of migrants granted asylum.
  4. End the War on Drugs.
  5. Empower the ATF to track and follow gun purchases across the border.
Of course, none of this will happen, as cruelty and apartheid are the actual goals.
Background Pony #01F2
You need to limit and control immigration otherwise these problems will continue. No state can have endless immigration.
BlitztheDragon
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -

Newsflash: A big chunk of our economy is BUILT on the backs of immigrants, both legal and otherwise.
There is plenty of room in this country, and much of the “scarcity” of resources is manufactured and imposed by the capital class. Overpopulation is a red herring pushed by ecofascist dipsticks.
And if you think - contrary to what the data says - that immigrants pose a greater risk of committing crime than a natural-born US citizen, congratulations that’s racist!
neutralgrey
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Silver Bit -

@Background Pony #01F2
I get what you’re saying about the Corpo thing (and I just want to focus on that particular aspect) but Corpos would rather find ways of paying less than giving their employees fair wages if they can help it. Yes, I would like for Corpos stop relying on pseudo-slave labor. Is it ever going to happen? Hell no. Even if the US becomes a hermit kingdom, Corpos will probably just use prison labor to pick fruit n shit.
Background Pony #01F2
@Ciaran
As most things Trump does, it’s messy, but it is a start to something that should have been done a long time ago. I really wish the democrats were the ones in charge of it but alas they are not. The ICE raids are just one part of a much larger effort.
@BlitztheDragon
As I said, that is not a good thing for American workers. And please read my posts carefully before accusing me of racism.
@neutralgrey
As long as the pseudo-slave labor remains plentiful, then no this cannot be changed. Giving illegals a way to become citizens and stopping further illegal immigration will imo curb the problem.
neutralgrey
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Silver Bit -

@Background Pony #01F2
It’ll change if we go hermit kingdom, doesn’t mean the change will be good. Like I said, they’ll turn to another cheap alternative like prison labor. Something you gotta learn about reality is that it’s harsh, cruel, and unfair. I’m indifferent to these raids, more numb than anything. I know they won’t change a goddamn thing. Trump is using this as a publicity stunt, either that or enough Corpo ghouls are gonna give him a call and tell him to stop. And of course Trump being their puppet, he’ll say “Yes sir”
Background Pony #01F2
@neutralgrey
You cannot use prison labour for many of the jobs illegals do. Making illegals citizens and ending their pseudo-slave status is the way to go. Some goods and services will cost more but as a whole everyone will be better off. Further immigration needs to be regulated to prevent this problem coming back.
neutralgrey
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Silver Bit -

@Background Pony #01F2
I’m only using prison labor as an example of a cheap alternative, my point is they’ll find a cheap alternative that’ll be beneficial to them and them alone. They’re always looking for ways to cut corners. Besides, who’s going to stop them? All of their puppets are in office. But this is besides the point, this is just a publicity stunt. It’s not meant to stop illegal immigration, just there so Fox News has something to show off the gullible rubes who voted for Trump so they can continue to sing his praise and stroke his fragile ego
BlitztheDragon
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -

My apologies if I misread your reply. I’d addressed a lot of what you’ve since said in what I said before about solutions; it just sounded like you were doubling down on “that’s still a problem!” which is why I responded the way I did.
Anyways, bottom line is pathway to citizenship for folks already still here, and covering immigrants of all statuses with our labor laws (and I think unions should work on admitting and protecting them as members too).
Background Pony #01F2
@neutralgrey
Nobody under this administration will probably lift a finger to stop them. But an economy where a worker is safe and is paid a living wage is a hell of a lot better than relying on what is essentially slave labour. It’s a goal worth fighting for imo.
@BlitztheDragon
Np. And yes they should. But, it will all be for naught if immigration is not controlled. It does not have to stop but it will need to be regulated.
neutralgrey
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Silver Bit -

@Background Pony #01F2
I agree that an economy where the worker is safe and paid a living wage is better than the system we have. Too bad we’re never going to get it. Trump will ensure that never happens as he outsources more jobs, cuts regulations to give his masters the opportunity to screw over the workers to save them a few more dollars, and those same workers will sing his praise
Background Pony #FCA7
Did anyone hear about DeepSeek and how the NASDAQ fell because of it? What really bothers me is that Trump knows and he said it was “A good thing.” Yea. Okay.
BlitztheDragon
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -

I did hear about this, and have been reaping endless schadenfreude. To my understanding, a Chinese firm released it an an open-source LLM that is about on part with GPT4 in power, but is far more energy efficient and cheaper to use. This torpedoes the narrative that AI companies need to pour more and more money and electricity into ever more powerful GPUs and data centers to advance the system.
As a result, NVIDIA saw almost half a trillion in market value wiped out practically overnight. Now aging Democratic leadership like Chuck Schumer are calling it a “Sputnik moment” and treating this like a Cold War arms race, and promising to double down on developing AI technology.
When Schumer posted that on Bluesky I quote posted him saying that if he has any sort of love for this country, he will retire.
Kazapsky
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

Five scoops of ice cream
Immigration IS regulated, to within an inch of its life. The whole reason America has illegal immigration is that they’ve spent decades making the legal path nigh-impossible. Getting into the country legally involves jumping hurdle after hurdle to please multiple government departments, any one of which can send you back to square one on a whim.
Immigration is the one part of America where the folks whining about regulations strangling people actually have a point.
BadgingBadger
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@Background Pony #01F2
Immigrants don’t spawn out of thin air, they’re human beings with feelings of their own and are rational enough to decide for themselves. Most of these come from dire economic circumstances, where the national economy cannot profitably absorb them, so instead of staying and being subjected to poverty, inflation, joblessness and, in severa, cases, armed violence (often compounded by none other than the US themselves through, for instance, an overabundance of firearms making their way south, i recommend reading The Cartels Do Not Exist by Oswaldo Zavala), they decide to take the risky but immensely profitable way to the United States where, even if they’re in constant fear of being deported as a method of social control (you can’t easily form unions and voice demands if the sword of ICE always hangs above your head), the prospect of being paid a handy sum in dollars is enough to convince them to work the most lowly, manual jobs.
The way i see it, Trump’s mass deportations are not part of a consistent, sound economic plan, but a scare tactic intended to maintain the power and reputation of ICE, appeal to his xenophobic base, and keep the remaining migrant workers in a state of fear. This is, after all, a guy whose own businesses have been accused of using migrant labor in the past, and who must appease big businesses, who have little to no interest in hiring regular, American workers for twice the price of an immigrant.
BadgingBadger
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Do keep in mind - if you’re a person with at least some modicum of empathy for foreigners and who knows where their own class interests lie, the solution is not supporting deportations, but rather elevating immigrants to the same status as citizen workers, absorbing them into the class struggle, and doing the same for workers in countries outside the borders of the US. And this is only the first mile of the conversation, because there is a large group of very powerful, very rich interest groups that want to make sure the world stays miserable as it is.
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
As most things Trump does, it’s messy, but it is a start to something that should have been done a long time ago. I really wish the democrats were the ones in charge of it but alas they are not. The ICE raids are just one part of a much larger effort.
Ironically, or perhaps unironically and exactly as you’d expect it to be, the ‘done a long time ago’ is sometimes also Trump.
Here’s an example. In Minnesota yesterday, a Cristofer Alexander Ramirez-Olivia was detained by ICE. He had pleaded guilty to fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct in 2018 and was given a stayed sentence and 90 days of electric home monitoring. He served his time, but apparently never became a legal resident.
The White House is really proud of having arrested them. They say it is “This is merely a small preview into the work the Trump administration is doing to secure our nation’s borders.”
ICE is Federal. They enforce immigration laws in the United States. And Trump was president when Cristofer Alexander Ramirez-Olivia was arrested in 2018.
So if ICE didn’t think Ramirez-Olivia was worth deporting in 2018, and didn’t deport them after they’d served their time, then why are they worth deporting now?
And, since they are obviously an example of Trump fucking up in 2018, then why is it being presented as some sort of massive success to be proud of now?
So … again … I don’t see how this is solving problems. It looks like Trump is reaching into his sack of “things he didn’t do or fucked up 7 years ago that he can claim as victories now as long as no one asks any questions”.
And, how is this somehow the Democrat’s fault? All of this was in Trump’s wheel house in 2018.
Update:
Ah! Found it - Ramirez-Olivia WAS detained by ICE in October 2018, and was released in November 2018. So they went through ICE and the Trump administration released them - even though they’d confessed to fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct:
According to Google, Exemption (b)(6) prohibits the disclosure of any record which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy such as information found in personnel and medical files
So … Yeah. Trump had a chance to deport Ramirez-Olivia in 2018, and his administration chose not to deport him.
So … why is he worth deporting now? 7 years later? After Ramirez-Olivia has served his time and according to the news reports hasn’t committed any new crimes?
Background Pony #01F2
@Ciaran
No… The democrats would probably have a better handle on this than Trump and be far more humane.
I don’t know why your example was not deported asap. Does not sound like someone you want around no?
And no, Trump probably wont solve the problem but make some arrests and boast about it. Trump is mostly useless but is right in that illegal immigration is a bad thing. (Probably for the wrong reasons but still there is a point there.)
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