Ridiculous. The show went in a different direction ages ago.

@Incursor
Felt like the show goofted something up big time.
Especially with the buildup.

@nightshroud96
Agree with all your points. Everything else is the agree to disagree kind of stuff. Glad we could reach this understanding.

The show was never meant to have the realistic level of politics that would make Twilight’s inexperience deal-breakingly bad. Is that the fault of us for having unrealistic expectations or did the show do something to bring it on itself?

@Incursor
And Celestia pretty much robbed Luna that chance due to bringing up retirement(and how Luna is unwilling to oppose Celestia’s decisions)

Its bad writing due to instead of having Luna overcome those problems, they made her runaway pretty much.
Like why was she hurting from being in Celestia’s shadow in the first place? Having it be like it turns out she didn’t want to shine at all is.. so off.
Only thing to have it better is be like Luna not retiring period or co-rules with Twilight at least. At least have someone rule with her that has actual experience(since many pointed out Twilight saving everyone’s asses does not equal to her knowing how to run a actual country)

The point about the failures part is it made the retirement worse since the sisters are ending their rules on crappy notes.
Luna has it worse due to her reputation is already damaged. Its even more a terrible sendoff for her character.
Another problem with the show is how it ignored the consequences of the sisters failing so much. Like Celestia and (especially) Luna shouldn’t be brushing off all of these failures. No way their confidence would not be damaged there.

@nightshroud96
The adapt better thing is the best argument I’ve heard you give.

And I acknowledge it was bad writing for Luna to retire for the same reasons as Celestia given their different characters and circumstances.

I’m saying there are ways/reasons justifying Luna’s retirement if you want to look for them (her realizing it wasn’t as desirable as she though). If it’s the writing that preventing you from seeing/believing them that’s a legit complaint. If you’re unwilling to see/look for them, which seems the case as you’ve ignored my asking how it could have been done better, it’s legit reason to personal dislike but beyond what the work can be faulted for as it does not exist just to meet your tastes.

Is the heart of this debate misunderstanding each others goals (you arguing what should have been and me rationalizing what we got)?

Also, they would haven been just as absolute failures in the finale even if they weren’t planning to retire. This is the best argument for their stepping down for Twilight who has a better track record.

@Incursor
It more like Luna didn’t get to adapt better.

Its still bad writing since it makes no sense for her to want to retire.
She barely ruled. Its not just not liking the outcome but it did Luna’s character dirty.

The change is bad since it doesn’t suit the character and does said character.

The finale did not justify Luna retiring AT ALL though. It made the retirement worse by making the sisters look like absolute failures on their last days as rulers. No, distracting the trio doesn’t work since they still got captured AGAIN in the same crisis.

@nightshroud96  
Or it’s not bad because “A Royal Problem” showed why Luna and us fans were wrong to assume she wanted to shine like Celestia, her introverted character not actually wanting the social commitments required for such.
 
Not liking an outcome is not innately bad writing, see Tragedy. That much of this is unintentional is valid critique, but seemingly different than the objection you’re raising.
 
It may be down to personal definition of “spitting on x character”, but disliking a change in character is not this if there is valid reason for the change, but I will agree there is plenty to critique about such change happening offscreen.
 
If the goal of the finale was to justify Luna retiring alongside Celestia, HOW could it have been done in a way you’d fine acceptable? It’s only as objectively bad as there was better ways to to achieve the goal.

@Incursor  
Its freaking bad since the start of her character was she was in Celestia’s shadow. Having it so she can never be able to be equals to Celestia truly and having her be fine about that is not good. It doesn’t work for her case.  
Its not the same with Twilight’s case abouty studying being more important about friendship. Friendship is something Twilight needed, as for Luna she needed to truly shine as much as Celestia but sadly the problem isn’t properly resolved at all.
 
Not really fitting since the whole mess happened due to Luna was stuck in Celestia’s shadow and wanted to be equally loved as Celestia. The night represents darkness regardless, having the darkness not in balanced with the light like that isn’t really a good thing.
 
It IS freaking bad since it spats on Luna’s character. The big fat issue is she barely rule as much as Celestia not did she got to enjoy her destiny of raising the moon for much long. And like I said, wanting to shine as much as Celestia.  
Having her be completely fine about retiring instead of finding some compromise to continue ruling while being with her retired sister is not good.

@nightshroud96  
It’s not bad if it turns out there was a very good reason Luna did not actually want such, her introvert personality. It’s like Twilight was wrong about studying being more important than friendship.
 
Fitting Luna who personifies night would have no true want to shine like she who personifies sun. I see the fatalistic implications, but that’s baked into the concept of cutie marks such it is a larger issue than just her.
 
I can accept the opinion of not liking the changes, the change was poorly implemented, and they should have explained who’d take over Luna’s unique repsonabilites. But just because something contradicts your original opinions about a character it’s not automatically bad.
 
Are we at a point where we can agree to disagree and move on?

@Incursor  
That really doesn’t make it ok. In fact its making the issue even WORSE.
 
For Luna’s case, its seen as horrible due to the tree screwed Luna over to get off of the throne.
 
Nope, that is not it. Its bad that she can’t step out of Celestia’s shadow and being forced to accept that.  
The “that grass is greener” thing doesn’t work for Luna’s case. Think of this as light and darkness(the latter being Luna), its really bad that Luna can’t be out of Celestia’s shadow and is apparently forced to accept that.  
Its a bad end to Luna’s character by making her think she shouldn’t shine as much as Celestia.

@nightshroud96  

@Incursor  
If they gave it up because they thought Twilight is more suitable, it will spat on Luna’s character hard by making her inferior and weak towards Twilight.
 
If that’s the case, the tree of harmony is fucking manipulative if it was counting on Starlight causing Luna to think that.  
Also, it still spats on Luna’s character. Like.. Luna could have realize she has to improve and work on stuff.  
Having her realize she didn’t want it makes her look weak and running away.  
And a crappy end for her character. She wanted to be out of Celestia’s shadow truly, to no longer be inferior to her. Having it end with she doesn’t want that is just not good.. it doesn’t work for Luna’s case.

@nightshroud96  
I will agree it was mishandled in that department; failing to explain how/who would take over her dream responsibilities and why she’d be so eager to give up the position she so wanted approval and respect for. If she gave it up because they thought Twilight better suited I could forgive that but they never say that even when justifying the change.
 
That said, “A Royal Problem” was the last time Luna had a major character role before announcing her retirement. Maybe that, where she had the position she always wanted, she stared to realize she didn’t want it as much as she expected.

@Incursor  
We literally see her enjoying her job such as helping the Cutie ark Crusaders.  
She wouldn’t have bothered to improve her image if she realizes she isn’t cut out for ruling.  
She didn’t look like she’s not enjoying ruling, she had trouble with Celestia’s side due to Starlight’s mishap but nothing on Luna’s own end when she still has that.  
Improving her image is still part of wanting to rule, she can’t rule if she is hated/feared(and would make things terrible for her), she wanted to be loved and accepted. She worked hard for that and her ending up not wanting to rule screws with that.  
If her enjoyment of ruling got messed up due to modern times, it gives her character a bad sendoff due to she can’t adapt to the modern time and thus the tragedy of Nightmare Moon and the lost 1000 years has gotten to her. Which is bad.

@nightshroud96  
When has she been shown to enjoy the responsibilities of ruling? Enjoying raising the moon and dreamwalking and wanting to improve her image/atone are different things than the enjoying the socio-policital requirements/obligations. (And when has Luna been shown to enjoy it as opposed to doing it out of importance/atonement and waning recognition? And maybe her enjoyment waned with all the new responsibilities required in the modern day.)
 
I agree their retirement had issues, especially not dealing with how dream related responsibilities will be handled now. And our attempts to rationalize it is us adding reason to where the writer failed to put it.

@Incursor  
She still clearly enjoyed ruling though. Big time.  
She enjoyed her job of raising the moon and dreamguarding.
 
Royal Problem showed she gets exhausted at times but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t enjoy ruling.  
If the writers made her not enjoy ruling, it would be contradicting to her character.  
She worked hard trying to improve her image and wanting to shine, all of that would be meaningless if it turns out she didn’t care about ruling at any point.

@nightshroud96  
“A Royal Problem” showed Luna didn’t care for the responsibilities of ruling.

@Daneasaur  
While Twilight was meant to succeed Celestia, there’s huge issues for Luna there.  
She didn’t get to rule for much long(and we are not sure if Faust’s original idea intended for her to step down too or would she co-rule with Twilight).

I asked the comic’s writer on Twitter and they replied with this:
 
As they said in Gross Anatomy:  
“Were you guessing?”  
“Was I right?”  
“Yes.”  
“Then I wasn’t guessing.”

If it wasn’t intended at the start it certainly became obvious when Twilight was made an even more magical magic horse by the current God Queen. Any other outcome would be like telling Luke he is a Jedi, training him in the Force and then having him pick up objects from high shelves at the Rebel base.

People practically called this since Season 1. 3 finale made it all the more obvious.

Twilight Sparkle taking over for Celestia was in the cards since the series started. What would have been weird or out of left field would have been someone mentioning someone like Rarity was going to take over and then the S9 finale having Rarity suddenly become the new royalty.

The timing means it could go either way. But really that ending was pretty obvious all things considered.