@DocMadfox  
Ah, but we’re not here to talk about how it is run, we’re talking about how it should be run, as we have been. And indeed, thank Obama for that and his “glorious socialism” which everyone overwhelming voted against but he decided to ram through anyway (“democratic socialism”–now there’s an oxymoron–in action). And yes, the government has to keep up with the standard of living, too–the fact that they were already rich is unrelated from the hypothetical. Whereas in socialism, they decide your salary, too, so…no.

@Lawful Girly  
“ whereas if you steal most of their money to build things like luxury prisons for non-contributing members of society (as is the case in Norway, for instance), then they’re hardly going to trust the government.”
 
Yes, because this doesn’t ever happen in Capitalist systems and the American government is completely not cutting funding to various institutions and shutting down routinely while giving themselves raises.

@DocMadfox  

 
And how is that fair? Without going into Ayn Rand territory (though that’s probably going to be how this episode turns out…), not everybody is equal. Profits should vary depending on what you do and how well you do. Opportunities? Eh, little less fair, but there will be more opportunities if more people do better work and improve the standard of living.

@DocMadfox  
And no, I’m not calling Sweden a paradise. It’s falling apart from various factors. It have a try to a modified socialist system and it failed.

@DocMadfox  
As AaronMK said, they weren’t communist, because (in fact) Communism hasn’t, and won’t ever, happened. They were totalitarian socialist, IE, socialist. Socialism might be technically, barely, functional in practice, but it will never be as effective as capitalism. Why? Because if you pay each worker according to his talent and work ethic, they’re going to want to work harder and eventually get so much money that they don’t have to work anymore, whereas if you steal most of their money to build things like luxury prisons for non-contributing members of society (as is the case in Norway, for instance), then they’re hardly going to trust the government.

@AaronMk  
A current modern, but flawed, example is Sweden. It puts too much strain on the Lower Middle Classes to provide for the rest of the nation however. As I said, there’s flaws in any system that need to be worked out. Socialism in it’s modern form is more a equalization of opportunities and profits than a stepping stone for Communism. Anyone who wants to use Socialism in that way is a Communist and not a Socialist.

@DocMadfox
 
Well I suppose it depends on the current modern theories. But for all I’ve read socialism has always been named as a stepping stone to achieving Communism.
 
But equalizing or seeing individuals as meaninglessly equal can also be attributed to other radical ideologies, such as fascism. In the same way the individual is unimportant in relation to an end-goal, the individual is in comparison minor in light of the strength of the State.

@AaronMk  
Going to point out no system of government is perfect in practice. However I’m also going to point out there are socialists who believe stopping at Socialism and not further devolving into communism is what should happen.
 
Regardless, my main point was at the beginning of all this that socialism and communism are not the same thing.

@DocMadfox
 
By technical accounts Communism is an end goal society achieved through socialism or some form of socialism. The act of a communist government is not necessarily “communist” as it’s really the state of society it wishes to achieve, through which ever means the Vanguard Party deems appropriate.
 
The process(es) of worker’s revolution and Socialism are the means by which a government can edge the society into Communism and dis-establish the concepts of nations, money, and class to found a “perfect” society.
 
Of course this also leads to such governments in their most extreme cases as ignoring the individual and regards all as part of a whole, whether through social collectivization or economic.
 
Socialism is thus the process to and mid-way point of obtaining Communism: the removal of class, money, nation, and the establishment of common ownership. Among other things its theorists believe as important for the next step in the evolution of human society.

@Lawful Girly  
You’re referring to actions of previous Communist governments, not Socialist governments. So no, you’re going with a Capitalist Democracy over Communism. Which is fine because Communism is insane.

@DocMadfox  
As do purges, theft of private property, authoritarian power grabs, genocide…every system is corrupt. I’m going with the ones that don’t involve asking people to cast aside human nature.

@Lawful Girly  
Though it does prove it corrupt.

@DocMadfox  
A lack of attention to trustbusting does not prove a system wrong.

@Lawful Girly  
Yes, because we completely don’t have a problem in the US with companies who’ve set things up on their own in turn trying to prevent other companies from setting up things that would take money from them.

@DocMadfox  
If you let people keep their money, they’ll set up things everyone needs on their own. Isn’t it a classical liberal maxim that “that state governs best which governs least”?

@Lawful Girly  
True, but the question comes down to would you rather have a functioning state that takes more money, or a state that screws up constantly while being broke but lets you keep more money.

@DocMadfox  
If you have to force it, it’s not charity.

@Background Pony #DE1F  
As a Socialist, I have to point out Communism and Socialism aren’t actually the same thing. Best way to look at it is Communism is enforced equality (#itsnotcommunism) while Socialism is more akin to enforced charity.

@Lawful Girly  
:O
 
Now I feel like Richter…

@bigladiesman  

@Background Pony #7770  
It can be said of almost every political and religious system of beliefs. It’s the twisted evil nature of Humanity which makes them harmful, as much as its twisted nice nature makes them good (ask all the volunteers working for humane societies, religious or secular).

@Background Pony #1F2A
 
The same could be said of capitalism. Just sayin’.

@Lawful Girly  
Hey man, she just started!
 
It takes a few years till the Purges start!

communist ideals in all it’s forms kills millions, Just ask the dead