“You thinking less of her and there being less to her as a character are completely different things.”
 
Correct, which is why I gave a specific example.
 
You get a deeper, more meaningful character out of the first two episodes than the entirety of this story, and that this story tries to actually retcon out all of the heartache and struggle alone she had to live with in her sisters abscess is just terrible. Implying she had a place to run to makes her less. The character itself has more depth when she handles it all the same.
 
Katielestia is “I want the boy”. That’s all she is, as a character. That’s her sole motivation in this story. She is literally, never once shown to want anything besides his safety. Her sister is linked to another and is now in mortal danger at the end of issue 2, and she does not care. She cries about Sombra.
 
Katielestia is lesstia. Which is a shame. In the show, she has a real problem over-estimating the power of friendship, or underestimating everyone who isn’t her, or being really, really reliant on ponies “Learning”, and that her student will see eye to eye with her choices. Lots of room to grow.
 
But Katielestia is not about growing as a character, she is just the poor fool saddled with the idiot plot and riding into the distance.

@441TheSecond  
Some middle ground might be nice.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
And really, why does it have to be “Boring invincible hero” or “Complete fuck-up”? Celestia was great in her micro and the FF issue. What was the problem with those?

@Background Pony #DA7E  
Ok, if Celestia is going to have emotional depth, why not have flaws that actually tie into her core personality and character? What if she starts becoming over-protective of Equestria? What if the fact that Twilight and her friends starts getting to her and she starts feeling useless? What if one of her plans for Twilight backfires? What if Twilight rejects her one time and she doesn’t take it well? What if she walks down a dark path like Luna did? Is turning her into a dumbass horny teenager and not have her grow from the experience really the way to go?

@Background Pony #DA7E  
“he just said there was “danger”, which arguably could’ve just meant more books getting misplaced.”
 
…Come on. Now you’re just implying she’s a moron.
 
“Me going to this universe is directly affecting my world in a physical sense and making ponies remember stuff that never happened, warping their minds? Why, him saying my world is in danger could mean anything at all!”
 
And again, she knows. She explained it to us in issue 2.
 
“ If stories about relationships bore you, then I guess this one wasn’t for you.”
 
Right, that’s the problem. This is an MLP comic, but it’s the opposite of what made MLP so popular, and it tells it badly to boot. This comic is not for me because it is bad, has bad versions of the characters I want to read, and is the thing people go to the show for the opposite of.
 
This comic was a bad idea at it’s infancy, when you think about it. Who wanted a somber, exploration free romance with a downer ending in a MLP comic?
 
“Tune in next month when Trixie loses to Twilight in a magic fight for the third time (or whatever the hell).”
 
I probably will, and god I hope Katie figured out what she did wrong this go round… which was everything. Who she was marketing this to, I will never know, but it’s pretty obvious it wasn’t fans of MLP.

@Background Pony #C1A7  
>Katielestia had flaws that were not present in the show, and contradicted by the show, so putting in these flaws normally means, “A way for her to learn”.
 
Or maybe it means “In our stories, Celestia’s going to have some actual emotional depth and personal flaws, and not just be a boring can-do-no-wrong hero type”
 
(and are you really citing Star Wars as an example of good storytelling?)
 
>Katielestia is more one dimensional because there is less to her now, as a character.
 
You thinking less of her and there being less to her as a character are completely different things.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
Just a note about the series, talking about how you don’t care about continuity doesn’t excuse you from not having it.
 
At least it’s something that can’t be messed up.

@Background Pony #C1A7  
>How is “YOU ARE ENDANGERING BOTH OF OUR KINGDOMS!” and then sealing off the portal in any way shape or form vague?
 
That’s absolutely vague. He didn’t say “THE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO FREAKING DISINTIGRATE!”, he just said there was “danger”, which arguably could’ve just meant more books getting misplaced.
 
>No we didn’t. It’s the same as it was in issue 2, and actually better explained why in a brief little box in issue 4. They explained more about what that meant in that tiny little aside on page 1 than the entire issue did. We learned nothing.
 
The relationship was literally the primary point of the entire story. Fixing the multiverse and fighting evil celestia and luna was secondary. If stories about relationships bore you, then I guess this one wasn’t for you.
 
>I mean, hell, is Equestria Girls now a grand adventure?
 
Well, technically I guess… Though it was retarded for a hundred other reasons.
 
>It was about a romance, a friendship getting broken up,
 
Again, sorry if the mushy stuff bores you. Tune in next month when Trixie loses to Twilight in a magic fight for the third time (or whatever the hell).

“ If we’ve made it past “magic miror/dimensional portal starts corrupting the world for unexplained reasons”
 
Except we were hoping the final issue would, you know… explain that? And the reasons they gave in issue 2, that Celestia and Luna were syncing and connecting with their other sides, is something that contradicts his fix.
 
If you want to pull out bullshit, fine, but at least don’t contradict what you set up. Suspension of disbelief only works if you pick a road and stick to it the whole way, veering left at the end just makes us realize how dumb the whole trip was.
 
“It’s emphasizing her weakness and imperfection. That was pretty explicit in the story.”
 
Basic storytelling. Character flaws are there so that the character has something to overcome and develop, that’s the point of character development. We have Han being brash and uncaring about others in Episode 4 so he can learn to care about others and the bigger picture in Episode 6. Katielestia had flaws that were not present in the show, and contradicted by the show, so putting in these flaws normally means, “A way for her to learn”. This is already lazy, because it means you don’t know how to make a character grow, but when you don’t even put it back? It means the character has regressed, become less than what she was at the start of the story. Katielestia is more one dimensional because there is less to her now, as a character.
 
“Haven’t watched ep. 1 in a while, but IIRC part of the story was that Celestia didn’t take the Nightmare Moon threat very seriously, so she used it more as a reason to jerk Twilight around/teach her a lesson than focus on the threat head-on.”
 
…No, she totally did, she just sent Twilight after the EOH because she herself could not use them anymore.
 
And, remember, because she sent Twilight after it, that means that she was willing for her little sister to get re-banished to the moon, she had no way of knowing it would fix her. It didn’t last time, or the time with Discord. That’s pretty heavy, considering.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
>Dude…they were in a freaking alternate dimension! How is that not grand?  
By… not being grand at all?
 
I dunno, when I think “grand”, I think something like the Mane Six arriving to a twisted Canterlot, and having to evade Evilestia’s Not-Gestapo and link up with the resistance in Ponyville consisting of various Antagonists like Trixie, Gilda, and Sunset Shimmer to formulate a plan on how to overcome these issues.

@Background Pony #C1A7
 
>That’s not what he said. Don’t pull that crap out of nowhere, he specifically said he needed to do this step to fix the world, not stop anyone. Which, of course, makes no sense.
 
Eh, I read it again and you’re right.
 
But again, you’re looking for a level of logic that it’s probably unreasonable to expect out of a comic book about a fantasy world. If we’ve made it past “magic miror/dimensional portal starts corrupting the world for unexplained reasons” without complaining, we shouldn’t raise a fuss about “sucking the evil out of Bad Celestia will uncorrupt it”.
 
>Removing traits she had before and replacing them with “She still does not have these traits” does make her more one dimensional. Because you’re not building on her character and our past knowledge of her, you’re subtracting traits she displayed and then… nothing! – with no + to make up for it.
 
It’s emphasizing her weakness and imperfection. That was pretty explicit in the story.
 
Stories where the perfect, infallible hero defeats the baddie week after week with no real difficulty or emotional ambiguity aren’t really that interesting.
 
>Think about that for a second. There was, secretly, this one character Celestia had full access to that made Twilight’s journey in episode 1 totally moot.
 
Haven’t watched ep. 1 in a while, but IIRC part of the story was that Celestia didn’t take the Nightmare Moon threat very seriously, so she used it more as a reason to jerk Twilight around/teach her a lesson than focus on the threat head-on.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
“Some books getting moved around and a vague warning from a wizard
 
How is “YOU ARE ENDANGERING BOTH OF OUR KINGDOMS!” and then sealing off the portal in any way shape or form vague?
 
Also, she knew the possibility of universal collapse when she went back 1000 years later. We know she knew. She is the one who explained this to us.
 
“You learned how meaningful the relationship was to her, which in turn explains why she behaved in a way that seemed superficially out of character.”
 
No we didn’t. It’s the same as it was in issue 2, and actually better explained why in a brief little box in issue 4. They explained more about what that meant in that tiny little aside on page 1 than the entire issue did. We learned nothing.
 
“Dude…they were in a freaking alternate dimension! How is that not grand?”
 
Because we didn’t see it. No, a freaking alternate dimension castle interior is not a grand fun adventure. Seeing an alternate universe land where everything is different, that would have been something! But they didn’t use this setup, and we got nothing for it. There was no adventure, no sense of wonder because we never got a chance to see it and wonder, even the Chrysalis arc got this right.
 
I mean, hell, is Equestria Girls now a grand adventure? Oh, wow, a highschool! That’s something amazing, right? Because it’s in another world!
 
“ Except for the “happy” part, that’s exactly what this was!”
 
Except the opposite? It was about a romance, a friendship getting broken up, and no adventuring.
 
It’s the MLP anti-thesis.

@Background Pony #C1A7  
>There’s nothing vague or ambiguous about “Stuff is moving, ponies minds are being altered, and my mentor outright says ’This is putting us in danger’.”
 
Some books getting moved around and a vague warning from a wizard who doesn’t really fully understand what’s going on himself isn’t the same as an obviously pissed off alicorn lazering down buildings with her horn.
 
>Nothing happened, we learned nothing new, and we gave up time for what comes next, resulting in an ending that makes no sense. That’s a pretty big mess up.
 
You learned how meaningful the relationship was to her, which in turn explains why she behaved in a way that seemed superficially out of character.
 
>…Because it was a comic that was more than three fourths castle interior and a short trek to another castle? There was no adventure, they got locked in a cell, had a tea party and then trotted over to a castle.
 
Dude…they were in a freaking alternate dimension! How is that not grand? Would seeing the alternate universe Sugarcube Corner really have added anything?
 
>So you don’t want a story about friends, you don’t want a story about ponies traversing the world, and you don’t even want to end it feeling happy about yourself and the characters?
 
Except for the “happy” part, that’s exactly what this was!

@Itsthinking  
This exactly sums up my issue with the arc. Celestia hasn’t always made the best decisions in-show, but the one absolutely consistent element of it is that she always does what she thinks is best for Equestria. This arc ignores that by showing her (in the present day) risking the existence of a multiple dimensions for a crush, when the show’s characterization, minimal as it is, clearly shows that she always puts the safety of her subjects before her own personal desires.
 
And even the “kept visiting Sombra in the past” thing could have worked. They could have used to show that she wasn’t always as mature as she is now, and that she’s grown as a character since that time. The problem is that this arc shows that she didn’t mature; as soon as she gets the chance she goes right back through the mirror despite the fact that her characterization in the present day indicates that she wouldn’t do that.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
>Right, and when Cadence and Shining Armor defeated Chrysalis with The Power of Love, that was so logical and well explained.  
Yes, that was stupid too. What’s your point? That because the show was incompetent at a resolution once too, we should ignore when the comic is as well?
 
>Issue 3 was all about character development.  
And yet I still didn’t give a crap when Black Brad became Lame Sombra.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
“ think Sombra (and everyone, really) was mainly just trying to stop Evil Celestia and Luna, and sucking all the evil out of them was a perfectly logical thing to do”
 
That’s not what he said. Don’t pull that crap out of nowhere, he specifically said he needed to do this step to fix the world, not stop anyone. Which, of course, makes no sense.
 
“Having her story arc not end the exact same way it does in every other story she’s been in doesn’t make her more one dimensional…”
 
Removing traits she had before and replacing them with “She still does not have these traits” does make her more one dimensional. Because you’re not building on her character and our past knowledge of her, you’re subtracting traits she displayed and then… nothing! - with no + to make up for it.
 
“Huh? They shouldn’t have bailed Sombra’s ass out because he didn’t invent dimensional portals himself so he could come defeat Nightmare Moon?”
 
No, it’s saying “The only reason we have a show at all is Celestia didn’t go get her boyfriend to fix it.”
 
Think about that for a second. There was, secretly, this one character Celestia had full access to that made Twilight’s journey in episode 1 totally moot.
 
In a meta sense, that’s just a middle finger. I guess she was feeling bitter the first five minutes kept contradicting her re-write of Celestia.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
“Nightmare Moon was obviously evil and a threat to the world. The whole “corrupting the multiverse” thing was a much more vague and ambiguous threat.”
 
There’s nothing vague or ambiguous about “Stuff is moving, ponies minds are being altered, and my mentor outright says ‘This is putting us in danger’.” Full stop, she knew she was risking the world, or at the very least someones mind.
 
“Issue 3 was all about character development. Just because you didn’t happen to approve of the character they developed doesn’t make it “nothing”.”
 
But this character development didn’t develop the character. It told us nothing new about their relationship. Cut out the entire tree sequence and we’ve lost no information besides “She kept going back”, which we knew. And we’re sacrificing time to explain a reason why the ending might make sense. Nothing happened, we learned nothing new, and we gave up time for what comes next, resulting in an ending that makes no sense. That’s a pretty big mess up.
 
“Right, and when Cadence and Shining Armor defeated Chrysalis with The Power of Love, that was so logical and well explained.”
 
…Actually, it was. Things that were set up in the episode prior to the finale. 1, Shining Armor has a shield that does not affect ponies. 2, love can be used to power magic(as it was used to power Chrysalis). 3, the only reason Shining Armor cannot use his shield is he is drained, specifically of love. 4, Cadence uses love magic.
 
And, boom. Makes total sense for “Recharge Shining Armor to use the thing he used at the start of the episode and was explained.” Too bad Katie couldn’t figure something out like that.
 
“ Yeah, like THAT’s never happened in the show.”
 
You name me one time Fluttershy went gaga over a guy and got up in his face. I’m not all knowing, maybe I just missed that episode.
 
“How was that not a ’grand adventure’?”
 
…Because it was a comic that was more than three fourths castle interior and a short trek to another castle? There was no adventure, they got locked in a cell, had a tea party and then trotted over to a castle.
 
“ People who don’t need a happy ending to enjoy a story?”
 
So you don’t want a story about friends, you don’t want a story about ponies traversing the world, and you don’t even want to end it feeling happy about yourself and the characters?
 
…Why the fuck are you reading the MLP comic book? That is literally all they do.

@Background Pony #C1A7  
>Because on the story front, it makes no sense. It makes no sense how he knew this would fix the world, as the problem seemed to be “Too similar to the other world, when it was meant to be the opposite” or “There’s too much good Celestia in this world.” Both of which should mean, to the characters, that this should make the problem worse. We have no idea why this worked, it wasn’t even hinted at, and it contradicts it’s own rules.
 
I think Sombra (and everyone, really) was mainly just trying to stop Evil Celestia and Luna, and sucking all the evil out of them was a perfectly logical thing to do. The fact that defeating them magically repaired the multiverse was just what needed to happen to preserve the status quo for the next comic. Every TV show in history does this. When the world gets majorly effed up, things magically go back to normal 10 seconds before the episode ends.
 
 
>She’s more one dimensional than she was when she started.
 
Having her story arc not end the exact same way it does in every other story she’s been in doesn’t make her more one dimensional…
 
>He totally could have used the EOH to remove Luna’s darkside, what a pity he wasn’t there to fix Luna for us. That’s just insulting.
 
Huh? They shouldn’t have bailed Sombra’s ass out because he didn’t invent dimensional portals himself so he could come defeat Nightmare Moon?

@Background Pony #DA7E  
Slight note: Alicorns(or unicorn) ability to transfer magic energy to other ponies(might be just alicorns and unicorns) makes the end of the wedding battle a bit less bewildering.

@Background Pony #C1A7  
>That episode, full stop, showed in no uncertain terms, and even with a deeply loved one, she’ll pick the world first.
 
Nightmare Moon was obviously evil and a threat to the world. The whole “corrupting the multiverse” thing was a much more vague and ambiguous threat.
 
>It’s a comic of setup, exposition, nothing, and then a hasty resolution
 
Issue 3 was all about character development. Just because you didn’t happen to approve of the character they developed doesn’t make it “nothing”.
 
>with nothing explained as to why this resolution worked, or why the characters thought it would work
 
Right, and when Cadence and Shining Armor defeated Chrysalis with The Power of Love, that was so logical and well explained.
 
>Third, the setup. We have a great, big vast alternate world with a ton of possibilities and outcomes, and yet we never see a thing of it beside a castle interior.
 
Showing the alternate universe Mane 6 would’ve been corny. While I was looking forward to it as I read the comics, in hindsight they were right to confine them to a short gag right at the end.
 
>Fluttershy going gaga and getting up in someones face? FLUTTERSHY!?
 
Yeah, like THAT’s never happened in the show. .
 
>And, finally… this is a comic about my little pony. This is a comic based on a show specifically about none of the things in this comic. It’s not about friends, slice of life adventures, silly fun or a grand adventure
 
How was that not a ‘grand adventure’?
 
>it doesn’t even end on a happy note to give us a good feeling. Who was this comic made for?
 
People who don’t need a happy ending to enjoy a story?

@Background Pony #DA7E  
Honestly? The ending is all around the worst part, story wise, character wise and especially in the sense of what’s come before.
 
Because on the story front, it makes no sense. It makes no sense how he knew this would fix the world, as the problem seemed to be “Too similar to the other world, when it was meant to be the opposite” or “There’s too much good Celestia in this world.” Both of which should mean, to the characters, that this should make the problem worse. We have no idea why this worked, it wasn’t even hinted at, and it contradicts it’s own rules.
 
On the character front, it’s even worse. It robbed Celestia of being the one to take agency and make up for her mistake. It robbed the character of being able to show she’s grown and is willing to take the brunt of the damage, and worse it makes it seem like she’s reliant on Sombra just to fix her mistakes. You took away her strong nature to show she’s not perfect, and then you didn’t put it back, it’s character regression, not progression. She’s more one dimensional than she was when she started.
 
And oh, let’s not even get into the real disturbing implications that the only reason our ponies that we love to watch so much had to go save the world at all is because Sombra wasn’t there to fix it for them. He totally could have used the EOH to remove Luna’s darkside, what a pity he wasn’t there to fix Luna for us. That’s just insulting.

@Itsthinking
 
IMO the whole point of the story was that love can ruin your otherwise good judgement. Also, the entire story was driven by events that happened 1000 years ago, when Celestia was much younger, and the residual emotions from them.
 
As far as the ending, that was 100% Sombra’s decision. Comic Celestia’s plan was totally consistent with TV Celestia’s personality.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
It’s how you where acting, you gave have what ever opinion you want just don’t be a dick about it.

@Background Pony #DA7E  
Really? You haven’t seen any of the multiple story problems brought up. Okay, you know what? I’ll level with you and just say “He’s not a troll” and treat this seriously.
 
Okay, first off, the base story is inherently flawed. Why? It’s Celestia that she chose to put at the center of this story about a young pony risking her world for love. Right here, at the start, fatal character disparity between the comic and Episode 1. That episode, full stop, showed in no uncertain terms, and even with a deeply loved one, she’ll pick the world first. Even after 1000 years, she’ll still pick the world, it just worked out better the second go round.
 
Alright, now that we’ve gotten past the base problem, the pacing. It’s a comic of setup, exposition, nothing, and then a hasty resolution with nothing explained as to why this resolution worked, or why the characters thought it would work, and in that order issue wise.
 
Third, the setup. We have a great, big vast alternate world with a ton of possibilities and outcomes, and yet we never see a thing of it beside a castle interior. I remind you, nothing happened in issue 3. We could have spent that whole thing exploring, and we would not have missed a story beat. So, that’s messed up too.
 
Fourth, everyone else. Who the hell are these characters? Dash openly insulting Luna to her face? Fluttershy going gaga and getting up in someones face? FLUTTERSHY!?
 
And, finally… this is a comic about my little pony. This is a comic based on a show specifically about none of the things in this comic. It’s not about friends, slice of life adventures, silly fun or a grand adventure, and it doesn’t even end on a happy note to give us a good feeling. Who was this comic made for?
 
There is not a single thing right with this comic.

@PonyPon  
Damn it Tia, keep this up and I’m going to have you get “fixed”! :D