Butters Stotch

Oh hamburgers!

@Background Pony #4205
Man, people keep making Discord sound worse and worse, and there are still people defending that guy smh.

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Background Pony #4205

@angryprogrockbrony
Speaking of Discord’s plan. What would happen if the trio blindly followed the instructions of the false Grogar? Discord actually said outright that he was going to send them on a suicide mission that they were bound to lose anyway. Technically, Discord himself was going to betray them and sacrifice them for Twilight. He didn’t care if they suffered the same fate as Sombra. Isn’t this hypocrisy for a “reformed villain”?
I don’t know about you, but if I were them, I would be the first to stab Grogar in the back at the first opportunity.

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Starless

Prog rock pony

@GrimChariot
I disagree. Chrysalis is much worse than Tirek and Cozy Glow. She’s the one who decided to overthrow Discord pretending to be Grogar, she’s the one who wanted to let the Windigoes freeze Equestria possibly killing many ponies (though it’s never implied ponies would have died by this) which Tirek didn’t agree with, threatened to rip off Spike’s wings (and unlike G1 Tirac who just threatened to behead Spike and never actually laid a finger on him, Chrysalis was actually pulling his wings apart, and although she did give him back to Twilight, she was going to kill him anyways), and unlike Tirek and Cozy Glow, who appeared to accept their defeat and appear scared, Chrysalis continued ranting about friendship and tried to attack everypony while being turned to stone.

While Tirek and Cozy Glow did cause a lot of damage, both of them had a few redeeming qualities whereas Chrysalis had none (and no, catching Cozy Glow so she doesn’t fall doesn’t count since it was pragmatic villainy), and it’s pretty clear that Chrysalis is more evil than both of them.

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GrimChariot

@angryprogrockbrony
That there is whats called an assumption-seeing as we never actually got to see the attempt to get her to ry outside of Discord’s selfish, cruel and frankly demonic little plan.

She’s no worse then any of the others and arguably caused less damage despite having multiple attempts then a good chunk of them even if she is a crappy person.

Saying she would never when not once was a proper attempt made is a self fulfilling prophecy and not deserving of recognition for it.

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Starless

Prog rock pony

@GrimChariot

@angryprogrockbrony
You expect Chrysalis, who actively just lost, is furious and borderline murderous, to have the the irrational realization of “If I say yes these people ready to kill me will suddenly be nice.”

That’s not what she thought, and I didn’t say the others would have been nice to her. If anything, most of them would still hate her (but not try to kill her) and the others would just tolerate her. And it’s never confirmed that they were going to kill her. What I said was she wouldn’t have accepted the offer regardless of whether she thought they’d forgive her, because she’s a borderline complete monster who hates friendship.

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GrimChariot

@angryprogrockbrony
You expect Chrysalis, who actively just lost, is furious and borderline murderous, to have the the irrational realization of “If I say yes these people ready to kill me will suddenly be nice.”

That is not how any living creature with a functional brain would think.

That offer is so pathetic it’s laughable.

Let’s also point out the Equestrian military is so useless in cannon material a toddler with a sharp stick could probably beat a platoon of them.

Their incompetence on allowing the wedding to take place while under direct threat of invasion, allowing the one person capable of actively defending the city go unguarded, not immediately preparing for attack and evacuation when the swarm spent about five minutes bashing into the shield in plain sight and hearing, and also failing to provid any actual attention to Shinning Armor when the headaches showed up…

Christ, beating the Equestrian military is so easy it’s not even worth being the lowest bar, it’s the ground itself.

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Background Pony #4205

@GrimChariot
funny but you are now repeating the words I voiced earlier. I agree with your opinion, but it seems to me that the logical message that you are trying to give will not be seen in your words. Blinded by emotions, people cannot understand the essence of the physical law “the consumer can never generate more energy than he consumes” explaining everything with “magic” despite the fact that the series itself has repeatedly said that “magic also has its limits.” Therefore, it seems to me that it is useless to conduct this dispute and in the end everyone will still have their own opinion, but with wasted “nerve cells”.

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Starless

Prog rock pony

@GrimChariot
You really think they’d all beat the shit out of her or kill her if she had accepted Starlight’s friendship? Nobody stopped Starlight from trying to reform her. Any of the princesses could have told her to step aside while they kill or arrest her, but they didn’t. Chrysalis might have been paranoid, but regardless, she thinks friendship is a disease and doesn’t want to get infected.

what good is a starving malnourished army for a conqueror?

Considering the army was capable of attacking Canterlot, defeating the mane six, and kidnapping every powerful pony, they are a far better, more competent army than the royal guards.

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GrimChariot

@angryprogrockbrony
Again, why would you trust one person offering you a hand when everyone else is about to beat you to death not ten feet behind her.

Listening to something that for hundreds of years was patently impossible is not as simple as going “Oh, I will defy the laws of physics today.”

Not only was Starlights offer made under the worst possible circumstances on every front, but the sudden flip of how everything works to turn finite into infinite is quite literally an ass pull.

I don’t have a problem with the changelings reforming, the fact it was yet another example of the universe bending over backwards for the hero’s and then it being used to justify a rather flaccid interpretation of the overall events is a problem.

Simply put what good is a starving malnourished army for a conquerer? The answer is, it’s not. That army would be worthless, more so then the royal guard are.

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Starless

Prog rock pony

@GrimChariot
We don’t have proof that Chrysalis wasn’t deliberately starving them either. It’s possible she did care about her subjects, but it’s more likely she was just using them. Had she listened to Starlight and Thorax instead of just trying to feed on the latter (which was likely to scare the changelings into submission) and had she accepted her friendship instead of running off, then she wouldn’t be that evil since she would have cared.

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GrimChariot

@angryprogrockbrony
We have no proof of the “deliberately starving them” thing everyone wants to throw out.

Thorax is a Deus Ex Machina moment and frankly the sudden “love is an infinite resource despite it being shown to have limits to how is available at one time” shtick was poor writing.

If being nice made everyone stronger Chrysalis, as a narcissist and manipulator on par with Celestia, would’ve done everything she could to be the strongest and most revered.

It was a Deus Ex Machina, not proof of further evil.

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Butters Stotch

Oh hamburgers!

@Background Pony #D814
Yeah, that’s as much of a lost opportunity as Grogar. I also thought we’re gonna get a three-parter since it is the last of the last after all. You’d think it would take a lot longer to end a show, like Gravity Falls.

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Background Pony #D814

Tell you the truth. I was kind of mad they didn’t take the opportunity to bring Tireks brother into the show to finally reform Tirek. They had the brothers friend Starswirl there, so why not use the opportunity???

It would be nice if this comic surprised us with his appearance, to have the duo of him and Starswirl working with Tirek.

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Background Pony #46B3

@Background Pony #BF91

So? Luna reformed at least.

What so so? Luna had the president of nepotism (celestia) to create that whole scenario of ep 1 , 2 just for luna?
What did chrysalis had? or tirek? or cozy? Duhhhh???

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Butters Stotch

Oh hamburgers!

@CORDZ2000
Fine, let’s go back to the topic since Discord is such precious little angel that should always be treated with privileges. Spike wasn’t showing forgiveness. They were literally fighting and of course Chrysalis would use him to gain an upper hand, and she is now acting disgruntled because she was just turned into a statue. It’s natural of her to feel angry. Why should her right of feeling be restricted just because she has done some wrongs? She is not being a bitch like you say, she is just reacting accordingly due to what has happened to her. If we want her to learn, we need to treat her the way everyone deserves to be treated, or it would be even harder to convince her to change.

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CORDZ2000

Draconequues Lover zcord

@Wayneponeth
the topic is about luna and chrysalis, chrysalis is responsible for her own actions, anyone who thinks she has the right to get uppity with luna and twilight is out of their mind.

I said she is unforgivable rn doesn’t have to be that way forever if she can stand to learn even a bit of gratitude, respect and humbleness especially after torturing someones Lil brother who is showing her forgiveness. To put it simply chrysalis is being a bitch but… We got nothing to continue to talk about since u can’t stick to the matter at hand and will just have the same old discussion again.

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Butters Stotch

Oh hamburgers!

@CORDZ2000
Well, I mean if she was brought back into villainy and then turned into statue before having the opportunity to learn, of course she seems unforgivable. And who do we have to blame for that? And apparently her title gets taken away because she did bad things but a certain draconequus gets all the privileges despite betraying and lying the the Mane Six? I guess the general idea of reformation is as long as they call themselves good, it means they’re good. It doesn’t matter what they do. They just have to claim they’re good and it’s all we need. This obviously means Discord just pretends to be good to begin with, while Chrysalis never claims she is good which is at least more honest, something Discord isn’t.

I do agree Luna is not comparable to Chrysalis though, but she still has a bit of her actions to blame which is why she blames herself so much, which is something Discord never does. So really the only thing comparable about those two is that they’re both better mares than Discord.

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CORDZ2000

Draconequues Lover zcord

@Wayneponeth
Chrysalis by all forms of logic is unforgivable right now, if u torture someones family member and they still give u another chance. And you dare to mock them, and act all high and mighty and call someone else a monster, u deserve a reality check. Chrysalis deserves a reality check in this comic, her first friendship lesson should be to learn some respect and humble yourself. This attitude is fine when she is a villain but Shes not one in this anymore.

Twilight should have said no u aren’t a queen your a civilian like everyone else. In if she still acts all uppity, twilight and/or Luna should tell her straight up, your hive didn’t betray u they left a abusive home with a mother who only used them to gain power. And if u ever want to be on good terms with them again u need to straighten up your act first off.

Yes Luna was jealous but she didn’t do anything wrong, she was mind controlled basically taken over by another force which amplified that negative emotion. Its why once nightmare moon was gone she was back to normal.

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Butters Stotch

Oh hamburgers!

@CORDZ2000
Luna still grew jealous of her sister which drew said dark power to turn her into Nightmare Moon to begin with. It’s still mostly from her own actions.

Also I like how you basically deem Chrysalis unforgivable because she commits physical trauma when Discord gets all the forgiveness even though he commits psychological trauma.

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Starless

Prog rock pony

@Background Pony #4205
And in my opinion, Chrysalis is a borderline complete monster. Her problem is she wanted to be the one to control the changelings and not Thorax or Starlight and didn’t seem to care if the changelings starved to death (if she did care she would have listened to Starlight). I think she was just using the changelings for her own personal gain (she did say she dreamed of conquering Equestria since she was small). Regardless, she’s much worse than Luna ever was.

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Background Pony #4205

@angryprogrockbrony
In my opinion, the canonical Chrysalis has two main flaws: Her gigantic ego and her hatred of other races. The fact that there is a possibility that she deliberately starved everyone does not negate the fact that she herself suffered from it along with everyone else. Regarding the fact that she was exhausting Thorax, there is a logical question: “How would you punish a traitor in her place who actually deserted and sold your side for food?” It seems to me that depriving him of this collected food seems like a logical step on her part.
And she could break his wings as she tried to make a spike. And the fact that she escaped from Starlight does not seem like something outstanding. At that moment, she was surrounded by all the Alicorns who are clearly angry with her. Starlight herself spoke to the reformed changelings about overthrowing Chrysalis and handing over power to Thorax even before Chrysalis fled. How should a character with great pride adequately respond to the offer of the pony who took everything from Chrysalis and is going to return it, provided that she technically surrenders to the mercy of the enemy?

besides, to me personally, Thorax’s unexpected solution to the problem of hunger (changelings get love from other changelings) looks like a “piano from the bushes” lazily invented by the writers.
and such a path, if you think logically, will lead to two outcomes:

(good option) changelings were originally because of someone under some kind of curse, which can be removed by performing a selfless act. (“dying of hunger, share the last crumb of bread with others.”, “love the freak for how he looks inside and not from the outside,” and so on.) with this option, everything will be fine, but since it is unlikely that anyone will explain to us in the canon cursed a whole people and their future generations, I doubt that this is really so.
(bad option) it turns out the problem of the impossibility of creating a perpetual motion machine. “A consumer can never generate more energy than he consumes.” In this case, it turns out that Thorax only distributed the energy that he accumulated in the crystal empire (technically, he threw a bunch of dry leaves into a dying fire. The flame burns brightly but quickly goes out.) If you do not replenish the supply of love, then hunger will return very soon, and since the changelings remained to live remotely slowly integrating into Equestria, there is no one to replenish stocks. (Moving the hive into a crystal empire that throws love into the air would solve this problem.)

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CORDZ2000

Draconequues Lover zcord

@Background Pony #46B3
luna and chrysalis are not comparable, luna basically got controlled by a dark force to be evil.

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Background Pony #BF91

@Background Pony #46B3
So? Luna reformed at least.

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Background Pony #46B3

@CORDZ2000
One action does not cancel the other. Luna whether fans like it or not did her own fair deal of things.