My spirituality is in flux right now. It has been for quite awhile now. For more than a few years. When I was very young, my family regularly attended church. We were apparently 7th day Adventists but if I'm remembering correctly, and from reading about 7th Day Adventism as I've grown older, I don't think we were very 'into' it. We went to church on Saturdays and didn't eat pork or shellfish but my parents certainly had coffee and other things Adventists don't regularly consume. Now that I think about it, the dietary restrictions were probably more than anything because my mother didn't eat pork or shellfish growing up in El Salvador. It was mostly chicken, beef and assorted vegetables for her as a child. I'm rambling.

Well as I said we attended church when I as young but stopped sometime after I entered elementary school, possibly around 1st grade. My religious education therefore had not really begun in earnest as I suppose it does with children that attend a church as they grow up. I was never baptized but I was 'presented' to God at the church in order to receive blessings.

As I was never formally educated in religion, I don't think I ever truly, truly believed with all my heart as Christians are instructed to do. I have always been interested in science from a young age. On my first visit to the school library, in kindergarten I picked out one story book. I returned it the next day because I thought it was stupid. From then on, until I went to middle school (which did have a library, but by then I was gaining a love of good, proper literature), I always, without failure, picked out books on science. I couldn't even read, but always chose something on science! The scientific method is vitally important to understand the physical world, which is the only thing we are capable of perceiving.
Religion maintains there is something more, and while I am open to the idea of the incorporeal, nobody can produce any evidence of anything supernatural.

There was a time when I told myself and others, that I believed. Even if I convinced myself that I did, truly and honestly believe in the miracles of Jesus Christ, I think that deep, deep down there was a part that knew it felt forced, dishonest, and therefore wrong to make that claim of faith even if it was very weak or non-existent.

Ugh I'm rambling again...

*pant pant*

My mother is not what one would call religious, but she does have faith. But she also believes in the more fantastic aspects of the Bible. She has faith, something that I don't think I have, at least not in the same way she does. I love my mother dearly. I took care of her when she was being treated for cancer. I had to take care of her because my dad was busy working and taking care of his father, who had aged to such a degree as to be unable to live alone.

The damnedest thing is that the only thing I can call a miracle is when my brother showed up at the house unannounced right before mom had her surgery... I kept saying, when I was alone, "God help us". I kept saying it repeatedly. And my brother shows up all of a sudden, from South Dakota. He'd gotten some time off from the military (and his marriage was on the rocks, we would later learn that he and his then-wife had begun the process for divorce). The morning he arrived I muttered to myself, "Thank God". I said that earnestly. Truly thankful, I felt.

So I'm very close to my mom. Probably more than the other two siblings. I talk to her about many things. Something we can't talk about however, is my religious doubts. It always ends with her saying, "There was a time when you did believe, you even considered becoming a priest or joining a ministry. You either believe or you don't." There was a time when I did consider becoming some sort of religious leader/teacher like a priest/minister/pastor. She's hostile about my doubt. I would say that the very concept of not having faith and not believing is something horrifyingly alien to her but I think it's more that I am her son saying such things that concerns her and it comes out as (or I am perceiving it as) anger or hostility. And I still have this immature sort of need to not disappoint her.

Goddamn this is getting long.

Look, it all boils down to this. The other day I was reading online, and somebody left a comment saying basically that believing in the current dominant myths, that of the Judeo-Christian God and Jesus that is so popular in the west, and in particular the focus some groups have on frightful imagery of the book of Revelation, is just ridiculous and silly. It would be like somebody being terrified of Fenrir swallowing the sun during Ragnarök.
When I saw that comment, something clicked in my mind. There was this moment of clarity. I don't think I 'need' religion in my life the way some people do. I don't need to go to church. I still remember scripture but it's not like some vast over arching thing that dominates my life. It never was, mind you, but I think I am just finally admitting it to myself.
Speaking poetically for a moment here, I feel very spiritually healthy right now. If I were God I think I would be pleased with one of my creations reaching this point because, just as children must leave their parents, spiritual beings shouldn't let their religion cripple them, they should not be overly reliant on a higher power to protect them or guide them during their whole existence.

I'm not at the point where I feel comfortable saying, "There is no God, no Holy Spirit, Jesus never resurrected, it's all a bunch of hooey." Maybe I will be someday, but it still feels blasphemous for me to say such a thing.

When our civilization is gone and something different has replaced it, how strange will our myths look to those digging through our ruins?

 

From what I took from your story your not becoming an atheist but you are instead more agnostic. From what you told us you still believe in a higher power. However it's the actual religions that you have an issue with. There is nothing wrong with this in my opinion as I also consider myself agnostic.

 

God knows.....

 

No, not an atheist... like Hellcat said, you may be agnostic Reading your post, I feel like you are trying to discover yourself a bit more as you get older. (I hope I made sense?) :rose:

 

God is to adults what Santa Claus is to children, a myth....

Wars have been fought, millions have been killed in the name of religion and "God".

Religion is and always will be about control.

 

You are using your mind to analyze your own beliefs, particularly how they have evolved, nothing unusual about this.

Most of our myths are loosely based on history, the further we are removed from that history, the more ridiculous the myths appear.

Becoming an atheist, I don't really know, only you know what is in your heart.

IMO, you are simply growing up spiritually.

 

Silver, if someone where to ask you to offer proof of god, how would you respond?

 

I would respond that God is an incorporeal being unbound by time, space, and physical reality. A being without beginning or end. An entity so far removed from human limits that any attempt to quantify it beyond vague statements like, "God is Love" is placing a limit on God, who is said to be limitless. To one person, such a statement would suffice and be proof enough of the existence of God. To another more concrete minded person, lets say with Asperger's Syndrome, "Love" is merely a chemical process and not proof of anything supernatural. As such, it is impossible to have 'proof' of this being. But I also think it is impossible to 'disprove' the existence of God.

I suppose if someone where to ask me to offer proof of god I would have to say, "We each have to find our own proof."

God works as a symbol, as a poetic creation. Taking it literally could (actually has been, as history has shown time and again) be dangerous.

Thanks for all these responses guys. I can't discuss these kinds of things at home.

 

Confusing God and RELIGION is always a mistake.

God is the unknown and unknowable. Faith doesn't prove her existence, but hope anticipates it.

RELIGION, however, is both knowable and MAN-MADE. Organized religion is, and has always been, corrupt, manipulative and dangerous. It is about power and control and has nothing whatsoever to really do with God.

 

Sums up my current beliefs pretty well.

 

Sounds agnostic. I'm a deist

 

What do deists believe?

EDIT: If someone were to ask you for proof of the existence of god, how would you respond?

 

That proof of god is the ability to observe the workings of the natural world. Without god, there would no order to the universe, matter would phase in and out of existence at whim, and nothing would be solid.. like in our dreams. Life isn't a dream, and it's god who imposes this order, or law.

Deists don't follow religious figures, and will not let someone else tell them what to believe.. although new understanding can be reached through rational discourse, and new experiences.

A dog is a dog, a beaver is a beaver. Doesn't matter what you do, they will always be just what they are.

 

Sometimes a beaver is a pussy, conversely at times a pussy is a beaver.

Perception is not universally realized.

 

If god is the one who brings order to the chaos... Do I then become the god of an entire universe, or even multiple ones? I have written before about my abilities as a lucid dreamer and it is nothing short of omnipotence. Each time I sleep I create a universe and bring order to it, and beings inhabit that universe and have lives. Upon waking the universe fades into oblivion and I am the only one that will remember it for a short time before the memories too, fade away.

Perhaps god is asleep and is directing the ordering of this world on such a massive scale, to us he is imperceptible.

How do you know without god matter would phase in and out of existence at a whim, with nothing being solid? How can you make such a statement? What are you basing this on?

 

Your story sounds a lot like my life. I was raised in the church. When I was a kid if the doors of the church were open we were setting there in the front row.
I did a lot more observing and listening than people thought. I found out the very religious people were not any different than the very unreligious. They just tried to hide it. Then I started really reading the bible and trying to understand it. In my opinion it didn't make any sense.
During school I learned that religion and science did not agree. Since I had never seen any sign of god and I could see science I tended to go with that side.
I still do not tell anyone I am an atheist. Those who know me well know it but I don't see any reason to tell the world. I am a very private person.
There was just too many things about god and religion that I couldn't understand and no one could or would attempt to answer.

 

Can you make a tree? You can plant seed and grow a tree, but can you make the seed?

 

Good Lawd,, you say shit like this, and I find myself agreeing with you,,there is a gawd.

 

beleiving??

I like the sticker that says "I think therefore I do not believe". The other saying the explains a lot about all religions "Those that believe in absurdities will commit atrocities."