@Background Pony #B897  
you usually bolt the moment people start criticizing you  
okay are you new here, because uh…

@Background Pony #B225  
I think the underling problem with nowadays is the vocal minority on social media. Outside of their online hugbox, the world is just pacifying them.
 
Most people don’t care.

@TexasUberAlles
 
“As I said, there’s nothing to work with here with you. You’re fully invested in a fundamentally wrong ideology, and too blind to see it any other way.”
 
And the dude’s response to that.
 
I agree with him. You’ve showed you are extremely arrogant and overly sensitive, here and in other comment threads, not sure why you stuck around commenting back to others, you usually bolt the moment people start criticizing you.

@TexasUberAlles
 
You can arrogantly assert your position all you’d like, but it means nothing in the face of how things really are. I’m sad you’d rather enable people’s problems than help them. I really am.
 
As I said, there’s nothing to work with here with you. You’re fully invested in a fundamentally wrong ideology, and too blind to see it any other way. I wish you luck in your future, but I think I’m gonna be done talking with you on this.

@The Smiling Pony
 
Then forgive my ignorance at being a product of my time I suppose, where men and women can do whatever job they please. I’ve worked with female construction workers (and male nurses), but my point is by and large, they’re separated based on gender due to the nature of their genders, not social oppression. If the majority of women wanted to pave roads and the majority of men wished to cut hair, then it would’ve happened.
 
As for clothing we’re not disagreeing. They’re designed for girls, so they’re meant for girls. There are very few social norms where those were for men (like in Japanese theater) Those are small separate instances. But society-acceptable norms about who should wear what, does not denote gender. Being effeminate doesn’t make you female. It’s just that most men are masculine (and females feminine), so that’s the norm. That’s personality though, not gender. It holds no influence over what genitals you think you should have, nor how people should refer to you.

@Background Pony #B225  
agreeing to disagree  
Well, no, you’re just plain old-fashioned wrong about every single luridly uninformed opinion you’ve voiced here; you can walk away from it if you want– and oh Sweet Babby Jeebus, please do so– but you’re walkin’ away Wrong About Everything regardless.
 
This isn’t a “debate” between “valid opinions”, it’s “you saying a bunch of quantifiably incorrect things and ignoring everyone who points out all the ways they’re incorrect”.

@Background Pony #B225  
“I wonder why there’s more teachers and nurses that are female?”
 
The first because women were historically, not allowed to hold many other sort of job, and only recently at that, so it stuck as “job women can do”. Same with secretaries and knitting and serving tables. Doubly so for nurses; women were just not allowed to study to become a doctor, let alone respected if they became one, until relatively very recently.
 
“Why more male constructions workers?”
 
If a job favours a trait influenced by sex, it’s natural that there are more of that sex carrying out that job. It’s not in question that testosterone influences muscle growth, strength, and atrophy rates.
 
“clothing is designed for each gender, but it doesn’t denote gender to wear anything.”
 
Except no. Stockings, high heels, and makeup are currently considered a thing for girls, while a man wearing such things would be considered effimate (at best). Go back 300 years and it would be considered the height of masculinity. Those are gender norms, nothing to do with being born with a dick or not, just what society thinks is “OK” at the time.

@TexasUberAlles
 
Yeah, plenty of people build careers and lives that are ultimately pointless to others. Just because a group of supposedly smart people come to a conclusion means nothing. I’ll stick with the centuries of proven understanding of human biology than the last 30 years or so of people trying to change it.
 
‘Being’ trans will be delusion. I’ve already made several comparisons where that thought doesn’t work in other similar examples. I’m about done with this debate, because we’re so far apart I highly doubt we’ll reach any sort of meaningful agreement, aside from agreeing to disagree.

@The Smiling Pony
 
Clothing and vehicle choices are not gender. That being said, gosh, I wonder why there’s more teachers and nurses that are female? Why more male constructions workers? Possibly because they’re biologically designed to be nuturing and physical, respectively. Not to mention clothing is designed for each gender, but it doesn’t denote gender to wear anything.
 
Career choice and personal interests are not gender. Neither is clothing choice in how you want to present yourself.

@Background Pony #B225  
Not that I think gay people are mentally ill exactly either  
Truly, your magnanimity knows no bounds.
 
the consistent insistence that sex and gender are different concepts  
You literally do not know what you’re talking about, and yet you keep talking. Smarter people than any of us in here have built entire careers around studying this subject, and it turns out the scientific consensus is that you are, in fact, entirely and completely wrong.

@Background Pony #B225  
Right, clearly; women are genetically predisposed to wear skirts and men are genetically predisposed to like pickup trucks. These are, after all, gender traits, and gender is exactly the same as sex, right? It is important to reinforce and maintain these things because, as we all know, change and reevaluation are wrong because common language use up to the point we say it matters stipulates sex and gender are the same and there can and should be no discussion on the matter.

@Background Pony #B8B4
 
Yes there’s tons of nuance in sex, like Klinefelter’s, but even in those cases there are plenty of other markers available to draw the proper conclusion. Perhaps not 100% accurate, but it’s quite close. Even in the case of hermaphrodites there’s always a dominant part. You are identified from the body, not the mind.
 
The mind is important, but gender studies is psychology. While it’s a useful field to help those with mental struggles, it’s not something to base one’s identity on, on such a foundational, and basic level. There’s no large enough studies to really substantiate the claims about SRS or HRT actually helping mortality. The mind can be, and often is deceived, and to encourage people to harm themselves in the name of making themselves feel better, is cruel. It is not loving to tell people to sabotage their bodies in order to have the mind match the body.

@Background Pony #B8B4
 
Belief wasn’t the best word there, fair enough.
 
Politically motivated like the move to take gays out of it in the 70s. Not that I think gay people are mentally ill exactly either. But is was to try and normalize something based on growing popular opinion, not science.
 
The overall problem I have with this conversation is the consistent insistence that sex and gender are different concepts, when time and again, they’re not. Sex is ‘male’ and gender is ‘male’ or ‘masculine’. The two words are so tightly linked there’s no distinction to be made between them. As long as you and others try to think that gender is some expression that’s changeable and acceptable no matter the case, there will be no meeting of the minds.

@TexasUberAlles
 
Lol just because I don’t subscribe to modern gender theory (which is nonsense) doesn’t mean I’m wrong xD
 
As for ‘intersex’, pls, I’ve already covered this. There’s always a dominant sex/gender to a person, even for those rare cases where you have a bit of both sets of parts. Enabling people in their delusion is harmful, but I’m beginning to repeat myself. Be like Fluttershy and be kind to people, and help them understand their own bodies since their minds are at fault.

@Starry Mind  
Fair enough.

Winning this argument is just going to stress you out, and there’s no satisfaction to it. I can tell by looking at the chat that nobody is listening to one another, and this is just a bunch of poor two-sided arguing. For all of you people’s moods… seriously, rethink this. Even if you know you’re right, just don’t engage in this.
 
And seriously, the best way to “win” is to stop letting the other person get the satisfaction of taking stabs at you.
 
Enjoy your day/night, everybody. :3  
And rights for all!

@TexasUberAlles  
Wildly unconnected outside of what I explained several times now. You chose to engage, you chose to draw connections that were never even remotely implied by anything I wrote.

@oddball 623A  
This is exactly like the behavior of the people I’ve described  
The two things are so wildly unconnected that you didn’t just steer the conversation into the weeds, you shifted it straight into Self Parody and let the clutch out at 6,000RPM. It was a self-evidently ridiculous analogy that was unambiguously intended to provoke arglebargle, and everybody here immediately saw it for what it was.

@TexasUberAlles  
I mean, okay. I didn’t, though. And I explained it more than I should have been expected to. Nor is that little self-quote a real answer to what I posted.
 
She’s blurting out a word (or series of words) with no context, and wears an orgasmic face while doing so. This is exactly like the behavior of the people I’ve described. Any further connection you want to make is far beyond anything I said, or implied.
 
You seem to be under the misconception that I’m some far-right troll trying to start trouble. If I were, the conversation would have gone in a completely different direction. I probably would have implied something to the effect that you would have been fine with my comment if I were claiming her actions were in-line with people who worship the Soviet Union of the period, and implied that you were some sort of marxist activist.
 
But I didn’t. Because I don’t put words in people’s mouths. I ask the same courtesy in return. Accusing me of various political affiliations over what I said is just knee-jerk and wasn’t very rational.
 
Speaking of rationality, the only one making the sorts of arguments that you keep predicting that I will make is you. I would tell you to chill, but I suspect that you might just twist that into some sort of ‘u mad bro’ argument.

@TexasUberAlles  
I mean it really seems more like you guys keep repeatedly making things up, but whatever floats your boat. You even keep telling me that I will make arguments that I’m not, and have no interest in ever, making.

Sealion McTrolberg  
…whereas I, an intellectual,  
Nobody’s buyin’ it, man. You blazed in the door making a patently absurd false equivalence that was carefully weaselworded so you could feign “Well I never…” affrontation at anyone who took it seriously and quickly duck behind a shield with “LOL u mad bro?” scrawled on it at anyone who simply pointed and laughed at you, and the whole lame attempt was as obvious as it was tedious.
 
Go ahead and throw down whatever variation of “LOL I win because you cared enough to respond” that you imagine to be an unstoppable checkmate rejoinder and just accept that you failed.

@Background Pony #B8B4  
I didn’t alter my initial position. All I’ve done is further clarify it (which isn’t backpedaling, btw) and defend myself from people claiming that I said things which they can’t, for the life of them, replicate via copy/paste.
 
Also, some sort of passive-aggressive accusation about who I support politically. I have a feeling you guys would be very disappointed to find out that I don’t have a confederate flag in my room. Nor do I have a MAGA hat. Essentially, this entire time, you’ve been projecting a caricature of who and what you want me to be over a benign comment under a silly picture.

By the way, happy Trans Day of Remembrance, to anybody still in the time zone! :3