Cirrus Light
And at the same time I can point to your arguments not being correct, I can point to precedent for reality having a “layer” “above” it - another sort of reality where you can see the lower layer exist within it.
Sciencepone of Science!
Reality doesn’t have layers that we know of…
I’m well aware that dreams are within this reality - at least within this reality. That’s why it’s a hierarchical relationship instead of an equal one. Within this reality, you can clearly see that dreams exist - as you said, you could use a machine to scan the brain.
But within a dream itself, you cannot do the reverse, and that’s the important part. A dream’s existence within the physical reality is irrelevant; but the lack of any evidence of a waking world within a dream is my point. My point is that every argument you and Fwelin have made here, could be made within a dream, and you would be wrong - disproving the notion that what you put forward are proofs of this reality being so definite, absolute, and ultimate. The proofs fail, because they also apply to “realities” that are not ultimate - that is my point. “Realities” that we can show are dreams, within this one, but that is irrelevant since you cannot show that they are dreams within them, if that particular dream forbids it as they often do.
But within a dream itself, you cannot do the reverse, and that’s the important part. A dream’s existence within the physical reality is irrelevant; but the lack of any evidence of a waking world within a dream is my point. My point is that every argument you and Fwelin have made here, could be made within a dream, and you would be wrong - disproving the notion that what you put forward are proofs of this reality being so definite, absolute, and ultimate. The proofs fail, because they also apply to “realities” that are not ultimate - that is my point. “Realities” that we can show are dreams, within this one, but that is irrelevant since you cannot show that they are dreams within them, if that particular dream forbids it as they often do.
…is an unfalsifiable claim, which means it has no place in this discussion.
That’s what I said about physics. This isn’t physics, and it’s somewhat odd to make physics demands of a philosophical discussion. This is existential philosophy. And you can’t pretend to be aloof to it, either - you also make an unfalsifiable assumption;
And the whole point of physics and science as a whole is to assume reality is constant
And that’s a key point; it’s an assumption and nothing but. It means that all of science and physics are confined to this reality by definition.
It makes physics and science very powerful since they rely on testability; but it doesn’t invalidate philosophy, either. Philosophy exists within science and physics somewhat depends on it; the specific example I’m thinking of are interpretations of theories. Here’s a short article on two interpretations of Special Relativity that I mentioned to Fwelin, the ‘Block Universe’ and ‘Lotentzian Ether’.
It’s comfortable to make a definitist, finitist statement and assume this is the only reality - to hold this rigid, absolute view of the universe, but I’m not satisfied by it because you could apply the exact same logic within a dream, and forever be confined to the “physics” within the dream. Oh, I love physics - you better believe it - but I’m well aware that it has its limitations. This is actually one of the reasons I’m so fascinated by General Relativity, though - because it describes spacetime, and spacetime is the essence of this reality. “The Canvas upon which the Universe is painted”, I think of it as.
In any case, I refuse to make or accept the assumption that this is the only, definite reality. Any argument you can make about this reality being definite (“definite” meaning “the only” or “the highest” order of reality) can be applied to a dream, and in my mind, that is proof that those arguments are not successful in proving anything, because I can point to an example of them being wrong, thus proof of their invalidity.
It makes physics and science very powerful since they rely on testability; but it doesn’t invalidate philosophy, either. Philosophy exists within science and physics somewhat depends on it; the specific example I’m thinking of are interpretations of theories. Here’s a short article on two interpretations of Special Relativity that I mentioned to Fwelin, the ‘Block Universe’ and ‘Lotentzian Ether’.
It’s comfortable to make a definitist, finitist statement and assume this is the only reality - to hold this rigid, absolute view of the universe, but I’m not satisfied by it because you could apply the exact same logic within a dream, and forever be confined to the “physics” within the dream. Oh, I love physics - you better believe it - but I’m well aware that it has its limitations. This is actually one of the reasons I’m so fascinated by General Relativity, though - because it describes spacetime, and spacetime is the essence of this reality. “The Canvas upon which the Universe is painted”, I think of it as.
In any case, I refuse to make or accept the assumption that this is the only, definite reality. Any argument you can make about this reality being definite (“definite” meaning “the only” or “the highest” order of reality) can be applied to a dream, and in my mind, that is proof that those arguments are not successful in proving anything, because I can point to an example of them being wrong, thus proof of their invalidity.
And at the same time I can point to your arguments not being correct, I can point to precedent for reality having a “layer” “above” it - another sort of reality where you can see the lower layer exist within it.