Magic deadlifts

@Prof.NightJack
 
Ok, sorry. I didn’t know that.
 
I will avoid engaging in long discussions on the comments in the future.

@CMC Scootaloo  
It’s not in the rules but it’s the whole point of the forums, the mods have stepped in and even point out that long discussions need to be taken to the forums and any time a person post something in the image section of the site with the intent of having a discussion the post has been removed with the statement “topic for the forums” or that like.

@Prof.NightJack
 
I can’t find a rule that forbids longer discussions in comments. Then again, it wouldn’t be the first time that an admin here enforces a rule that isn’t there.
 
Anyway, it’s doing no harm here and someone who is not interested in it can just ignore it, so I don’t see a reason to complain about it.

@CMC Scootaloo  
Actually it is, the comment section on image is for comments.  
Discussion belong in the forums.  
So to hold a long discussion in the comments in kind of a spam.

@Blissey1
 
What is spamming here? It’s a discussion related to the picture.  
If you don’t like to see it, just ignore it and scroll past it.

@CronoM  
@Background Pony #0E44  
will you two stop spamming the comments with giant walls of text and take it to the forums or something.

@CronoM
 
“While one can learn ’the how’ of certain spells from reading them from a book, they haven’t established any connection with just reading without practice equaling growth of magical strength”
 
Yes, but my point was that the books Celestia asks Twilight to read probably are related to magic as well as other things she often finds helpful in her advenures, like equestrian history. So her having to read more books since becoming a princess isn’t contradictory to her improving, but rather implies she is generally working harder than before, as one would expect after being promoted XD
 
“I question the magic needed to transform and shrink actual ponies that extensively compared to all her other examples of magical power Twilight’s has done”
 
I’d disagree and say it’s building on the likes of * grabs list *: brainwashing an entire town with a doll, giving Rarity wings, making parasprites eat the town, traveling in time, turning off gravity, turning birds into oranges, messing with her friend’s very selves, accidentally turning Fluttershy into a bat, and probably others I forgot.
 
Those kinds of wacky advanced spells are hard to find a proper use for in-narrative, and as you can see they also have been shown to lead to problems in-universe quite often through all four seasons, so it’s little surprise to me that Twilight doesn’t go using this sort of stuff willy-nilly, especially assuming she’s becoming more responsible with her powers. But it’s worth remembering she’s always been able to do crazy things and Ponyville always suffered for it
 
“Alicorn Amulet Trixie formed a solid barrier over an entire town”
 
Do we have anything to even compare on how impressive that is? Because I can’t remember any other instance of a character creating solid barriers, they seem to go for magic shields.
 
“How so?”
 
I say they’re mages in their own right because, while in many fiction stories you have a regular ‘muggle’ king/emperor/ruler who hires a wizard for his magic services, MLP has the four alicorns - asside from rulers - also be probably the four most powerful magic ponies arround. They are qualified to solve their own or other ponies’ magic problems.
 
As we saw in the season four finale, should Tirek grow powerful enough to drain the four princesses’ magic, it would mean everyone else’s is already gone and there would be no equestrian left who could try to stand up to him.
 
The mere fact that becoming an Alicorn requires a unique feat of magic, and that Alicorns apparently exist to be not only guides but magical defenders of the land implies that becoming a competent mage is a requirement for the job, though not the other way arround.
 
“the base princess alicorn we have is Cadence”
 
Actually, I’d say Celestia has been the show’s quintessential princess since day one. She is the best example of what being a princess is in Equestria can mean, and certainly the most prominent ruling figure in the show. She is without much doubt the role model the other three younger princesses would aspire to.
 
For that very reason, if Twilight is ever shown to reach Celestia levels of power, experience or wisdom, it would have to be at the very end of her character’s run, for there’s not much else to go from there. That’s what I meant with Celestia being the ‘most princess-y of princesses’
 
“her power seems highly specialized in a few areas closely related to her cutie mark, and vastly limited in most others”
 
I’m unsure how you concluded that last part since we haven’t seen too much from our resident pink princess at all. The first time we saw Cadance in action she and Shining blasted a being Celestia herself lost to and her whole changeling army together.
 
And the second time, as I remember, her magic alone was strong enough to defend an entire ancient empire from Sombra for days without sleeping, eating, without Shining’s help or the crystal heart. Despite the looks, I dare say Cadance can be tough and seems to have a lot of power inside her.
 
Anyway, back to the original topic, I think only time will tell if Twilight is or not able to pull off the spells from Magic Duel now. My guess is that she could but it’s just that, a guess.
 
I also remember last finale her saying she was still just then learning to control her own alicorn magic, so we’ll have to wait and see on that. With another whole season confirmed, who knows what the future holds for any of these characters, after all.

@Background Pony #0E44
 
“Isn’t reading books a huge chunk of magical training too? I always thought reading about the subject was key and what a pony has to do if he/she wants to learn new spells. Twilight didn’t say what Celestia was having her read, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it included magic and related things, along with other key subjects like politics and history.”
 
While one can learn ‘the how’ of certain spells from reading them from a book, they haven’t established any connection with just reading without practice equaling growth of magical strength. Many unicorns have shown strong or dynamically unique magic without being scholars.
 
“In fact, what she says about the breezie transmogrification spell is that she learned the spell from one of the books in Celestia’s castle, so there seems to be some nifty spells to be learned from Celestia’s ’boring’ books XD”
 
Fixing up the castle and reading those books left there a 1000 years ago were a pet project of Twilight only, not having a thing to do with Celestia’s instruction. While it was nice, comparing the two themes, showing Twilight with some self motivation with magic again…I question the magic needed to transform and shrink actual ponies that extensively compared to all her other examples of magical power Twilight’s has done AND done later.
 
“How would one compare those?”
 
It ain’t hard really. Alicorn Amulet Trixie formed a solid barrier over an entire town with ease. With that kind of power, the worm would of barely been able to struggle after the first hit/restraint. The worm was vicious but it wasn’t that big.
 
 
“I’d say all the equestrian princesses are wizards/mages”
 
How so? The two immortal sisters/goddesses aside, the base ‘princess alicorn’ we have is Cadence, and unlike a wizard, her power seems highly specialized in a few areas closely related to her cutie mark, and vastly limited in most others. Taking that into account and that Twilight is shown only a little stronger then her alone in the bare basics of magical power, its easy to see a distinct lack of improvement.
 
“Glimmer was the one shocked there, and that’s because as she said herself she he had studied that one spell for years and yet Twilight blocked it with ease. Glimmer was confident, and I don’t think she had ever dealt with an alicorn – or any pony that could easily out-magic her”
 
Which would of meant nothing if Glimmer knew her background was as a student of magic. Her shock showed she didn’t. She’s been isolated for who knows how long, nobody knows who she is, and she thought stealing from a princess would go along great with eventually dealing with the sisters. Its not any surprise to the audience that early unicorn Twilight could of blocked Starlight’s spell, especially since barriers are Twilight’s forte behind teleportation spells.
 
Guessing creator’s knowledge of the characters is guesswork on both our parts, but I haven’t seen them display Twilight as that much stronger on her own more then once, let alone consistently. (shrug)

@CronoM
 
“in the recent seasons has taken a step back behind the other things Celestia wants to keep her occupied with.(“Celestia’s been having me read more books then ever ever since I became a princess”)”
 
Isn’t reading books a huge chunk of magical training too? I always thought reading about the subject was key and what a pony has to do if he/she wants to learn new spells. Twilight didn’t say what Celestia was having her read, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it included magic and related things, along with other key subjects like politics and history.
 
In fact, what she says about the breezie transmogrification spell is that she learned the spell from one of the books in Celestia’s castle, so there seems to be some nifty spells to be learned from Celestia’s ‘boring’ books XD
 
“Her abilities fighting off the worm were hardly close to the magic Trixie had”
 
How would one compare those? Trixie wasn’t fighting an enemy, but using her magic to do complex spells, which is why I used the Breezie one Twilight did as the closest comparison.
 
“Heck, even in the most recent premier, it was displayed as a ’shock’ that a powerful hedge mage unicorn got her single energy beam blocked by an alicorn on “Twilight’s” level”
 
Glimmer was the one shocked there, and that’s because as she said herself she he had studied that one spell for years and yet Twilight blocked it with ease. Glimmer was confident, and I don’t think she had ever dealt with an alicorn - or any pony that could easily out-magic her - before, hence the shock.
 
I doubt anyone in the audience, or Twilight’s friends who know her, were surprised at that outcome.
 
“Y’know…the princess that once wanted to be a wizard”
 
I’d say all the equestrian princesses are wizards/mages, and some of the best arround as it was established early in the show. Heck, I doubt any pony in Equestria knows more about magic than Celestia, who is the most princess-y of princesses XP

@CMC Scootaloo  

 
citation needed

@Ponyko  

 
And they have a very small surface and are very thin, so more concentration is needed to lift them up, because there is less surface to attach the magical grip to.  
And yet Sweetie Belle managed it without much effort. Shows how good she has become and how talented in magic she is.  
You are spot on with this analysis.

One day, Sweetie Belle will be more skilled in magic than Twilight.  
Go for it, Sweetie!

@Background Pony #852E  
As far as her magic has been displayed, her magical training in the recent seasons has taken a step back behind the other things Celestia wants to keep her occupied with.(“Celestia’s been having me read more books then ever ever since I became a princess”) Her abilities fighting off the worm were hardly close to the magic Trixie had or Zecora wanted Twilight to achieve, and overall her own powers have hardly shown a significant upgrade. The event with the pixies seemed as magic-jarring continuity-wise as the magic comic book being explained away as merely ‘from an enchanted bookshop’. Overall, her own magic I honestly can’t tell if its been a slight improvement or gotten slightly weaker.
 
Heck, even in the most recent premier, it was displayed as a ‘shock’ that a powerful hedge mage unicorn got her single energy beam blocked by an alicorn on “Twilight’s” level. (Y’know…the princess that once wanted to be a wizard?)
 
….and instead of answering Glimmer’s question about her own training, Twilight gave her the same boring lecture she was trying to give when Starlight said “Quiet!” What kind of person hears a question, and then responds with something completely unrelated to the question just because she didn’t get to finish it earlier? Its as if Starlight Glimmer’s question didn’t even register to Twi cause she was so obsessed with her own lecturing.
 
Have you begun to see a pattern here? I sure have.

@CronoM
 
When Twilight couldn’t pull off the stunts Trixie did with the amulet, it was a good while ago and she was still a unicorn. Even moreso if you consider Magic Duel was designed for season two rather than three where it ended up.
 
Now, with the time that’s passed and her magic-enhancing upgrade to alicorn, I’d guess that Twilight could do the more complex spells she couldn’t quite pull off back then and give the amulet a match. She did pull off a breeezie transmogrification spell which seemed quite complex without trouble a while ago.
 
Of course, much like the breezie spell, Twilight doing the sort of spell she faked at the end of Magic Duel for real would need some sort of reason. Even if Twilight is known to mess with magic in questionable ways sometimes, I think she knows better than to turn her friends into fillies or old mares just for fun.
 
Who am I kidding? It’s only a matter of time

@SeraphimDawn  
Her mana capacity should increase with age and extended magic training.  
And her skill points in Magic Mastery will likely increase with specific spell training.
 
Maybe she could look into voice amplification spells. Girls’ got a lung made out of iron(and not the other meaning XD)

@SeraphimDawn  
Exactly. And the fact she could suddenly fly as fast as Rainbow Dash when she was in attack mode meant that all her ‘instincts’ were enhanced for that battle, in magic, flying and fighting.
 
I’m not saying a few of her teleporting uses on the ground weren’t her personal skills, but the rest were all her power and skills overclocked by outside stat buffs. Her real fighting power and skills were pretty much displayed against the worm in S4.
 
Twilight doesn’t have any real instincts of her own as some ace flying Z fighter, that’s just obvious, but her magical power will likely definitely improve if she really buckles down on her training. Maybe not sister-alicorn level magic, but enough that there’s a significant difference in power(she can control) in contrast with an alicorn like Cadence, and likely as strong as Trixie with the amulet.
 
Its unclear at this point whether Twilight actually has the potential to be sister-level alicorn, or if her powers are simply similar to aang’s avatar state…especially if its possible someone else can awaken to that kind of alicorn-status power naturally.

I guess Sweetie still doesn’t have the mana capacity for prolonged usage.  
Must put skill points into Magic Mastery for effciency.

@CronoM  
The reason why Twilight was able to give Tirek a beating was that she had all the alicorn magic, Celestia, Luna, and Cadence’s magic with her. Twilight isn’t really that powerful…. at least not yet. She just had a gigantic stat buff.

@OverlordScorpion  
The way Twilight’s magic works is a little different from other unicorn magic, as she is the Element of Magic and her power does not completely rely on her own will. It can even be added to by outside power.
 
Twilight’s power is closer to the Avatar State in Last Airbender that’s semi-always on. The magic she had zero control over as a child far surpasses the magic she is capable of doing herself yet. Twilight insisted that unicorn magic only depends on if the user wills it, even though she herself is the exception. She has a set power she’s learned to control all by herself, and when she uses that up, she feels drained, but if she loses control of her magic due to anger or stress, her magic will go haywire and burn herself out. She’s frickasied herself going ‘burning’ mode and nearly blew up her own house in fits like this. And according to one of the most important comics, Celestia’s confessional one, Spike admits it happens even more then that.
 
Zecora said eventually Twilight’s own magic would be equal to that of Alicorn Amulet Trixie, and its possible if her will extended over that much of the Element of Magic, but as it showed in that episode, she’s not nearly ready yet.
 
When the Element of Magic was boosted 100 fold in Twilight’s Kingdom, my guess is only the instincts of all three races on overload in her body allowed her to fly at near RD speeds and fight with magic power she herself couldn’t use a fraction of. Without her flight or fight instincts kicking in, she pretty much had no power over the enhanced Element of Magic.
 
 
@OverlordScorpion  
Traditional unicorn/alicorn magic seems to work similar to what your assessment. The power relies on will AND practice, and when its used a lot, the unicorn will feel drained, but enough practice, it costs less energy.
 
I’m not sure if magic and physical energy are DIRECTLY linked, but being drained physically definitely doesn’t help one’s magic. When Cadence was beaten and starving in the caves, her magic wasn’t nearly up to par. If her magic didn’t synchronize with Shining’s magic perfectly, (common in fiction among soul mates) the miracle that stopped the changeling invasion never would of happened.
 
Point is, even if Sweetie Belle has got the will to do far more, she’s still very inexperienced with her magic, and like another nervous system, she has to get used to it to use it more efficiently. Your analysis is really good :)

@Ponyko  

 
I personally believe unicorn magic works rather like a second nervous system, translating orders into electric impulses, then electricity into magical energy that is expelled through the horn. So, unicorn magic is somatic, whereas earth pony and pegasus magic is autonomic.
 
I too headcanon it that the more concentration or practice one has with a spell, the more resource efficient they become it. The whole “practice 10’000 kicks once; practice one kick 10’000 times” thing. Like you said, a key is more complex in shape… but, one could also just move the more symmetrical key ring - or, better yet, just a tiny section of the ring - and let the rest of the object be dragged.

@OverlordScorpion  
From what we have seen so far, I would deduce that the amount of Magical energy required for a specific task is linked to the mass / complexity of the task. A Door requires little effort to move even though quite large. A set of keys is quite light but is a complex shape and requires complex motion. From this I think that magical use is like a muscle, the more it is used the more power you can direct or the finer motor control you have. Perhaps it is like a tap, magic is a stream of energy and ponies tap into this, through use they can channel more and more magic, concentration and discipline allow them to shape this. Overtly for Unicorns, Passively for Pegasi and less overtly for earth ponies (see Maud Pie). Personally I like the first option, think how twilight struggled with teleporting, now she can teleport with little to no problem. this is just my humble opinion

This is a nice touch, btw. We saw a couple instances in the episode showing how Sweetie Belle’s magic has seriously improved. Then at the end we get this scene, reminding us that she’s still a beginner and has a lot more to learn.

I always wonder if it takes actual physical strength to cast magic.

Sweetie doing unicorn weights.